Help with megger results of NM-B

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peter d said:
The exact wording is "new member". You're far from a "new member" at this point, therefore no rules have been broken.
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However the intent behind them is still the same. If we questioned every members credentials solely on something we do not agree with the forum would grind to a halt.
 
apparently we have discussion here that started elsewhere, and it is going in a direction that will derail the thread:(
 
kwired said:
apparently we have discussion here that started elsewhere, and it is going in a direction that will derail the thread:(
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In that regard, how well does a megger catch an over driven staple only involving one conductor? Id imagine the readings would be very high.
 
mbrooke said:
Please show me proof that I lied. So far none is present.
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There's no proof in your mind because you're the one who needs to keep lying about it. But the proof is abundantly clear to anyone with actual experience in the trade who has read your postings.
 
peter d said:
There's no proof in your mind because you're the one who needs to keep lying about it. But the proof is abundantly clear to anyone with actual experience in the trade who has read your postings.
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There is no proof on your part either. Yahhh, I made a comment that inspectors should question everything, probably because I was angry with the whole AFCI ordeal. The post was then taken at face value, with the statement twisted into 'you dont know how inspectors work therefore you never did work'.

The issue is we have a few folks (a mod really) who dislikes me challenging tradition thus needing to find a way to do damage control.
 
mbrooke said:
However the intent behind them is still the same. If we questioned every members credentials solely on something we do not agree with the forum would grind to a halt.
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Let's get something straight here. I never questioned your credentials based on any view point that you have or had. There's many, many people on this and other forums with whom I have had disagreement over the years. But then there are the cases where someone is obviously trolling, or in your case, obviously lying about being something he is not. I started to doubt someone's credentials when it becomes apparent they aren't who they say they are.
 
peter d said:
Let's get something straight here. I never questioned your credentials based on any view point that you have or had. There's many, many people on this and other forums with whom I have had disagreement over the years. But then there are the cases where someone is obviously trolling, or in your case, obviously lying about being something he is not. I started to doubt someone's credentials when it becomes apparent they aren't who they say they are.
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Other then a few statements taken at face value or out of context, nothing else was used to support that claim. Someone said I was lying and you followed. And it makes sense since I know you strongly disagreed with the lot of what I said which by itself is ok and welcome.

I asked questions and made statements that questioned the core of our code and that set someone off.
 
romex jockey said:
I've little patience or faith in a forum who's maverick mods run off posters , summarily having said threads closed down by other mods

Insisting American electricians do not pretest , know how to use testers , or that it is NOT code required is just plain wrong all around

Grow up

~RJ~
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Insisting American electricians:

do not pretest , That is pretty inclusive. Some do, some don't.

know how to use testers , Which testers? Do we all have to certified in each and every one?

or that it is NOT code required 110.7 states completed wiring installations "shall be free from..." It does not say how we have to arrive at that point. Visual inspection and "Trial & error" are not excluded from that process.

is just plain wrong all around
 
ptonsparky said:
Insisting American electricians:

do not pretest , That is pretty inclusive. Some do, some don't.

know how to use testers , Which testers? Do we all have to certified in each and every one?

or that it is NOT code required 110.7 states completed wiring installations "shall be free from..." It does not say how we have to arrive at that point. Visual inspection and "Trial & error" are not excluded from that process.

is just plain wrong all around
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:thumbsup:

I'm also getting really sick of hearing about British wiring, the superiority of foreign systems, and having irrelevant and useless comparisons made between American and foreign wiring systems.
 
peter d said:
:thumbsup:

I'm also getting really sick of hearing about British wiring, the superiority of foreign systems, and having irrelevant and useless comparisons made between American and foreign wiring systems.
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They offer insight imo, and give new perspective on electrical theory. Both stand to gain from one another. BTW, as I recall it was you who was interested in Canadian wire ampacity. :thumbsup:
 
mbrooke said:
They offer insight imo, and give new perspective on electrical theory. Both stand to gain from one another.
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Like what, for instance?


BTW, as I recall it was you who was interested in Canadian wire ampacity. :thumbsup:
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Canadian and American wiring is very similar so I'm far more inclined to be interested in what they do than the British. That being said, there is only so much that can be learned about other systems before it becomes and unprofitable waste of time.
 
peter d said:
Like what, for instance?
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Wire amapacity, material reaction to environments, grounding and bonding theory, step potentials, surge protection... the list goes on. If for example one sits down to study TT, TN-C-S, TN-S and IT earthing it opens the door to a whole new level of understanding the reasoning behind our article 250. An easy example is TT earthing, which rids the old belief that a ground rod can clear a normal breaker.



Canadian and American wiring is very similar so I'm far more inclined to be interested in what they do than the British. That being said, there is only so much that can be learned about other systems before it becomes and unprofitable waste of time.
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Similar, but very different in application. Nothing in the NEC would allow fixed non motor loads having no integral overload protection to load #12 to 25 amps with a 35 amp OCPD.


In any case the laws of physics remain the same.
 
In regards to wire ampacity here is one example of what BS7671 can teach:

http://www.resolvematters.ca/09/images/file/Cable_Ampacity.pdf

A literature search revealed that this problem had already
been addressed in the present edition of British Standard
7671:2008. An addition to this electrical code was issued in
Regulation 523.7 which imposed an ampacity de-rating factor
of 0.5 for any cable completely surrounded by thermal insula-
tion. Applying the BS7671:2008 de-rating rule would have
resulted in the incident cable installation being limited to 107.5
A, just over half of the measured current flow in the cable.
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Of course the above doesnt need to happen for a person to compare the NEC and ask why does BS7671 de-rate so much where we dont have to? Is their wire insulation weaker? Extra pre-cation? In my case I sit down and calc the thermal dissipation factor, adjust for dielectric constants ect, ect, to find out if there really is a valid basis, and in turn why BS7671 requires this.

Again, just one thing from comparing two codes.
 
peter d said:
Like what, for instance?




Canadian and American wiring is very similar so I'm far more inclined to be interested in what they do than the British. That being said, there is only so much that can be learned about other systems before it becomes and unprofitable waste of time.
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Some of us may think some of the American systems requirements are a waste of time (hint - AFCI's) and that maybe some other methods used elsewhere may be worth looking into.;)

But we still need to sell those ideas to code makers and manufacturers or all of it is a waste of time.
 
kwired said:
Some of us may think some of the American systems requirements are a waste of time (hint - AFCI's) and that maybe some other methods used elsewhere may be worth looking into.;)

But we still need to sell those ideas to code makers and manufacturers or all of it is a waste of time.
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Other than AFCI's and a few grounding rules (ground rods), there isn't much that we need to change IMO.
 
kwired said:
Some of us may think some of the American systems requirements are a waste of time (hint - AFCI's) and that maybe some other methods used elsewhere may be worth looking into.;)

But we still need to sell those ideas to code makers and manufacturers or all of it is a waste of time.
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Exactly my point. Foreign wiring methods opened my eyes to something I never would have guessed: RCDs and low mag trip does the exact same thing as a branch feeder AFCI. However, despite them being mandated for decades outside of North America there has only been a small reduction in electrical fires. In fact if one adjusts those statistics in relation to countries having wood framed dwellings while having RCD & low mag trip (like Norway which has some of the strictest codes on earth) there is not much of a difference in fire statistics relative to North America.

Therefore it can be assumed arcing (and what ever else RCD/low mag/AFCIs) catch is not a culprit behind most fires. So in other words it is unlikely AFCIs will ever make a dent in electrical fires in the US since similar technology has proven so all over the world.

This is what the CMPs and manufactures don't want you to know.
 
peter d said:
Statements like this show that you live in the theoretical and not the practical.
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Actually at best it would show you have no practical experience. Anyone with real world experience knows how much harder it is to pull and terminate #10 over #14.

And yes I am well aware the NEC requires #10 for most resi water heaters, so dont try that one. :p
 
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