Hi Leg Marking question

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Regularkevin

Regularkevin

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Location
Auburn, WA
Greetings,

I am a 3rd year Apprentice in Seattle. My Journeyman and I were fortunate to landl the load side of a 30 kva transformer. Transformer was fed to a disconnect which was for a commercial space meter center.

Ok, the transformer was a Delta/Wye stepping 480 down to 120. Line side was identified with high voltage phasing... brown, orange, yellow. I felt that the load side should have been identified with the high leg marked as orange.

Well, this didn't pass with the Inspector and my Foreman and Journeyman gave me grief over this matter.

My question is simple: who was correct?
If I was wrong, can you explain why?

Where can I find it in the 2005 code book? 110.15 is Hi leg marking, 408.3 (e) is phase arrangement. I understand those rules. If it is stepping down the voltage wouldn't the load side measure accordingly on the meter?
 
If it was a 480 - 208Y/120V transformer, there is no high leg. Around here, the secondary would be black, red, blue.

Each phase to neutral would be 120V in that system.

If you were indeed using a delta transformer creating 120/240 3?, there would be a high leg, which would require marking. I could have sworn that Seattle was one of the places they require a purple high leg, but I could be mistaken about that.
 
Regularkevn said:
Greetings,

I am a 3rd year Apprentice in Seattle. My Journeyman and I were fortunate to landl the load side of a 30 kva transformer. Transformer was fed to a disconnect which was for a commercial space meter center.

Ok, the transformer was a Delta/Wye stepping 480 down to 120. Line side was identified with high voltage phasing... brown, orange, yellow. I felt that the load side should have been identified with the high leg marked as orange. Well, this didn't pass with the Inspector and my Foreman and Journeyman gave me grief over this matter.

My question is simple: who was correct?
If I was wrong, can you explain why?

Where can I find it in the 2005 code book? 110.15 is Hi leg marking, 408.3 (e) is phase arrangement. I understand those rules. If it is stepping down the voltage wouldn't the load side measure accordingly on the meter?
Click to expand...

The 480 into the transformer is almost irrelevant as to what comes out of the transformer, depending on how it is wound you can get almost any voltage configuration you want on the output side. May have a high leg ( 240/120 ) If you had a custom wound trans former you could get 12 volts on the out put if that is what you wanted.
Making a guess based on the reaction of all involved I think George is right it must have been a 208/120 Y with no high leg. So no orange tape needed :smile::smile:
 
If the system marked " 208Y120 " then no you don't need the orange colour on this system due the line to netural is less than 150 volts { correct me if the numbers are wrong } but if you run into delta system it will marked " 240D120 " then yes the wild phase have to be marked in orange colour.

Keep in your mind as other members mention the 480Y277 system most do run in BOY format { Brown Orange Yellow } and yes there is some local code requirement it will need BPY { Brown Purple Yellow } to advoid confuseing.

However there is one stern warning on very old delta system the wild leg will not be marked in orange it will useally be in red.

Merci,Marc
 
Aaahhh grasshopper,
Dont always assume orange is a hi-leg
Dont always assume 3phase is WYE
Dont always assume the hi-leg is on B phase
Dont always assume that the hi-leg is marked

A wiggy cannot lie, use it to discover the truth for yourself.

Sad thing is that your Journeyman didnt know the answer.
 
Sorry (I)threw my wiggy away 20 years ago . I use my my fluke D.V.M. to test up to 480 v. .............I believe digital for me is the only way ,more of an exact number when it comes to a read out ,WHY GUESS WHAT THE VOLTAGE IS ? A wiggy is good on street lighting?????????/
 
Ok, thanks for the input.

How did I know it was high leg? I didn't. I was [cough] assuming that because it said 'delta to wye' that this was a high leg situation.

Secondly, no voltage present. I am not allowed to work hot. My assumptions were based on what I was reading at school and what I thought was the right path to follow.

Yes, it was 120/208, Inspector wanted to see black red blue. Yes it is somewhat sad my journeyman didn't know the answer. I asked around the job for several days and didn't really get anywhere. This has been a valuable learning for me.

I only hope that in the future I can impart the wisdom that is present on this forum.

Thanks.
 
Regularkevn said:
topic derailed.
Click to expand...

Why do you say that?

The members asked how you made a particular determination which could be done by a meter or a tester and Jim states that he still carries a wiggy, which would indeed be a good way to identify a high leg if you were looking at a four wire Delta.


Roger
 
The Hi-leg Serv. Cond. Of a 4-wire 3-phase Delta-connected service where the midpoint of one winding is grounded must be permanently marked orange. Paint or marking tape is acceptable.
See section 215-8 for feeders (2002 NEC) (Omitted from '05 edition)
See section 408.3(E) for panelboard (2005 NEC)
ANSI requires metering equipment be designed for high-leg termination on line 3 or the "c" phase NEC requires the high-leg to terminate on the "b" phase or center of panelboards and switchboards as per 408.3(E)
There are no requirements in NEC for the high-leg terminations in switches and disconnects
208Y / 120 3 phase
Black
Red
Blue
White

480Y / 277 3 phase
Brown
Orange
Yellow
Gray
Permanent identification required at each
Panelboard where more than one voltage
Is present.

Above is information that was contained in the '99 code. I changed 384-3(e) to 408.3(E) but I noticed that 215.8 is no longer with us. Was this relocated or stricken ? :-?
(the color schemes noted above are not code, just the way it's done around here.)
 
roger said:
Why do you say that?

The members asked how you made a particular determination which could be done by a meter or a tester and Jim states that he still carries a wiggy, which would indeed be a good way to identify a high leg if you were looking at a four wire Delta.


Roger
Click to expand...
I can't tell the difference between 208 and 240 on mine - I actually have a more accurate reading looking at the DC scale. :D

I suppose I would be able to see a difference between 120 and 208, but I'd feel a lot better seeing it on a digital screen, myself. :)
 
George Stolz said:
I can't tell the difference between 208 and 240 on mine - I actually have a more accurate reading looking at the DC scale. :D

I suppose I would be able to see a difference between 120 and 208, but I'd feel a lot better seeing it on a digital screen, myself. :)
Click to expand...
You mean you cant tell by the jiggle????:rolleyes:

Topic derailment - yes..... Whats next? 'ghost voltage'?

Anyway - on the OP while many of us know that there technically know there is no (official or full) "Color Code" in the NEC - the OP could have used a number book for other than the neutral and would have been fine with 1-2-3, or A-B-C...

If a high-leg - orange would be needed, or FYI San Francisco is purple....
 
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