High Frequency Noise/"Dirty Electricity"

[James Mcdermott]

Hi, looking for advice regarding up to date information on how to mitigate high frequency noise or so called "dirty electricity". I see a few older discussions on this topic in the forum but would like feedback on the latest information as described in the video below. Basically looking for a critique of the information from Michael Schwaebe and Sam Milham(sammilham.com).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErBISqF6Afs

It appears high frequency noise can be a problem even in properly wired circuits due to external sources including water pipes and improper grounding of external interconnected circuits. Schwaebe highlights the limitations of filter devices and ultimately recommends a heat dissipative device versus filtering. Also looking for less expensive options than those described by Schwaebe(Pxdna, EP2000) as I work in the residential market and few can afford the devices recommended.

 

[petersonra]

I know what I think.

 

[hbiss]

Penny for your thoughts.

-Hal

 

[K8MHZ]

I know what I think.

I know what I think too. I also am curious about the 2016 code cycle.

 

[electrofelon]

Hi, looking for advice regarding up to date information on how to mitigate high frequency noise or so called "dirty electricity". I see a few older discussions on this topic in the forum but would like feedback on the latest information as described in the video below. Basically looking for a critique of the information from Michael Schwaebe and Sam Milham(sammilham.com).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErBISqF6Afs

It appears high frequency noise can be a problem even in properly wired circuits due to external sources including water pipes and improper grounding of external interconnected circuits. Schwaebe highlights the limitations of filter devices and ultimately recommends a heat dissipative device versus filtering. Also looking for less expensive options than those described by Schwaebe(Pxdna, EP2000) as I work in the residential market and few can afford the devices recommended.

What sort of problems are you having or have you had?

 

[__dan]

Hi, looking for advice regarding up to date information on how to mitigate high frequency noise or so called "dirty electricity". I see a few older discussions on this topic in the forum but would like feedback on the latest information as described in the video below. Basically looking for a critique of the information from Michael Schwaebe and Sam Milham(sammilham.com).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErBISqF6Afs

It appears high frequency noise can be a problem even in properly wired circuits due to external sources including water pipes and improper grounding of external interconnected circuits. Schwaebe highlights the limitations of filter devices and ultimately recommends a heat dissipative device versus filtering. Also looking for less expensive options than those described by Schwaebe(Pxdna, EP2000) as I work in the residential market and few can afford the devices recommended.

I got 41 seconds into the video and that was enough. Somehow it started again and I'm at 11:17. It's starting to give me a headache I did not have before starting this video. What do you recommend to make this go away

My take thus far, Schwaebe is an idiot. That's saying a lot since I could easily watch an hour of Nader.

The entire earth's population is in a dependent and symbiotic relationship with electricity of all types. You would have to go deep into the Amazon to find some undiscovered tribe to find humans unexposed to electricity.

Basically every human on the earth is a beta tester for every harmful result electricity can deliver. Perhaps you can name some actual harm that is occurring and is reproducible. Certainly there is evidence that DE can be used to sell, well, air in a can. But do you have proof that DE has caused harm. I mean, how hard is it to find some blabbering idiot who became that way by exposure to DE. You have every human on earth as your pool of exposed test subjects.

I feel my headache is going away. The video is still at 11:17. Perhaps I should hit play and see if the headache returns.

Welcome to the board! :thumbsup:

 

[Fulthrotl]

I know what I think.

Penny for your thoughts. -Hal

I know what I think too. I also am curious about the 2016 code cycle.

*fulthrotl carefully wraps his head in tinfoil to keep thoughts from going either in, or out,
as well as blocking sub space field harmonics, and passes the reynolds wrap to the next person.......*

wrap 'er good and tight boys.... we don want no leekage here.....


note.... before snugging down the foil, i looked at greenwave......
a glowing testimonial....


[FONT=&quot]“GREEN WAVE FILTERS pack a powerful punch with a small price tag. My results so far with their product (two weeks):[/FONT]

• My dreams used to be full of self-deprecation and worry WHEN I remembered them, which was hardly ever. As soon as I installed the filters I had the ability to remember 2-3 dreams per night and the tone of each has been positive!
• The sense of an under-current of static in my home is gone.
• I feel happy most of the time.
• During sleep, I rest deeper than before and am slowly gaining in muscular strength because of it.

[FONT=&quot]BUY THESE THINGS!”
Cathy, Santa Fe, NM[/FONT]

 

[ggunn]

• The sense of an under-current of static in my home is gone.

Sometimes there is a sense of an under-current of static in my home but it has nothing to do with electricity.

 

[James Mcdermott]

I got 41 seconds into the video and that was enough. Somehow it started again and I'm at 11:17. It's starting to give me a headache I did not have before starting this video. What do you recommend to make this go away

My take thus far, Schwaebe is an idiot. That's saying a lot since I could easily watch an hour of Nader.

The entire earth's population is in a dependent and symbiotic relationship with electricity of all types. You would have to go deep into the Amazon to find some undiscovered tribe to find humans unexposed to electricity.

Basically every human on the earth is a beta tester for every harmful result electricity can deliver. Perhaps you can name some actual harm that is occurring and is reproducible. Certainly there is evidence that DE can be used to sell, well, air in a can. But do you have proof that DE has caused harm. I mean, how hard is it to find some blabbering idiot who became that way by exposure to DE. You have every human on earth as your pool of exposed test subjects.

I feel my headache is going away. The video is still at 11:17. Perhaps I should hit play and see if the headache returns.

Welcome to the board! :thumbsup:

If you can point out any factual errors in his presentation or disagree with the analysis, please do so.

Not really looking to debate the potential health effects. More interested in the technical aspects of filtering/dissipation of high frequencies. However, if someone here has studied the work of Schwaebe, Milham, Magda Havas, Martin Pall, and others then let me know your viewpoint.

 

[__dan]

If you can point out any factual errors in his presentation or disagree with the analysis, please do so.

Not really looking to debate the potential health effects. More interested in the technical aspects of filtering/dissipation of high frequencies. However, if someone here has studied the work of Schwaebe, Milham, Magda Havas, Martin Pall, and others then let me know your viewpoint.

I did not see any factual errors. He presented information that non linear switching power supplies have high frequency transient and harmonic components. Yes, so?

He claims (I cannot recall exactly) that one nanoTesla of radiated EMF causes him excruciating pain. I believe excruciating was the word he used. A subjective statement but a fact that he said it.

I do in fact believe there are EMF sensitive people and the early versions of high power cell phones may have caused serious medical conditions. Easy enough to prove by popping an egg in a microwave and hitting 5 0 0 high.

My wireless router supposedly runs on 80 milliwatt transmitted power. I would like to turn that down closer to zero.

Mitigation strategies would start with eliminating or reducing the worst beta products from ones environments, using labeled listed products, wiring that meets code.

I insulate only with foil faced fiberglass or rigid foam board. It's a standard commercial grade product not much more costly than the cheap stuff.

That adding a powerline filter is at all saleable as an effective remedy and not simply a placebo for hypochondriacs, to part them from their money, is a non starter. Go ahead and make that statement, it is fraud. Effective in relieving actual medical conditions, not simply that you can change the display on your oscilloscope.

Schwaebe is careful to present unrelated studies of oscilloscope readings of switching power supplies along with discussion of line filters, claiming he can reduce measured transients. Yes he can, it's a duh moment. He does not claim medical benefits, obviously to skirt prosecution from the Feds and customer lawsuits for false claims. There is obviously some promoted linkage with DE and human suffering but he is careful to skate the edge of where his direct claims would result in legal action against him.

If you know anything about this, it is not clear from the promoted video.

 

[hbiss]

... let me know your viewpoint.

I think we pretty much have.:happysad:

-Hal

 

[James Mcdermott]

He claims (I cannot recall exactly) that one nanoTesla of radiated EMF causes him excruciating pain. I believe excruciating was the word he used. A subjective statement but a fact that he said it.

...

My wireless router supposedly runs on 80 milliwatt transmitted power. I would like to turn that down closer to zero.

...

That adding a powerline filter is at all saleable as an effective remedy and not simply a placebo for hypochondriacs, to part them from their money, is a non starter. Go ahead and make that statement, it is fraud. Effective in relieving actual medical conditions, not simply that you can change the display on your oscilloscope.

Schwaebe was talking about 1 nanoTesla in the audible frequency range. Any high pitched noise would get on my nerves, and it wouldn't be a surprise if something like 30k or 50k frequencies might have a similar effect on nerves.

...

A wired router would bring the signal to zero.

...

Yes, I agree, but also have to respond to clients concerned about high frequencies one way or another, and I would be more comfortable installing a $100 device than something that costs $1000 or more.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

...
Yes, I agree, but also have to respond to clients concerned about high frequencies one way or another, and I would be more comfortable installing a $100 device than something that costs $1000 or more.

Why?...you make more profit installing the $1000 item, assuming you are providing it.

 

[James Mcdermott]

I think we pretty much have.:happysad:

-Hal

We? You have a mouse in your pocket Hal?:happyyes:

 

[hbiss]

That little mouse told me that you won't get very far here peddling snake oil.

-Hal

 

[__dan]

and Sam Milham(sammilham.com).

Sam Milham is much more credible. looks like good work and very interesting reading. Good tip, Thanks.

In larger high power systems, the rule could be look and you will find problems. Ungrounded systems with short to ground and limited return path through the earth, improper neutral connections so the radiated magnetic and electric fields become widely spaced in air, all kinds of stuff. There should be good demand for PQ surveyors, ghostbusters.

Things a simple power line filter will do nothing for, but open minded surveying and a range of mitigation strategies and necessary for. Wired over wireless router being a good one, regular TVSS line conditioning for unrelated reasons, buildings incorporating lots of stone and masonry in the living spaces, banning some classes of powered devices (CFL's should go, LED's will succeed).

It does not help at all to mix myth with substance. A properly wired balanced circuit at residential load levels radiates very little but still a problem could be present that power line filters will never do anything for. It could be powering more than one 50 watt transmitter (a defective or poorly engineered device / appliance) that pollute with EMF of some type. The wiring and the filter may see and power a normal looking load.

I am finding and seeing on a daily basis basically shock and electrocution hazards, illegal shoddy fake work. I'm sure a site I find deficient would peg off the scale on the instruments used for EMF surveying.

There are real problems out there that powerline filters would be unaware of, like a short on an ungrounded system, haphazard neutral to ground connections and paralleled neutrals ... there's a lot going on. Switching power supplies, non linear loads, have been getting better in newer generation equipment, they are not a problem. The target has to be in sight to be visible.

 

[K8MHZ]

I am always surprised that people focus on things like house wiring and routers causing EMF and RFI. Ask a ham radio operator about it. The biggest offenders by orders of magnitudes are plasma TV's, surveillance cameras, battery chargers, touch lamps, CFL's, some computer displays....the list of supposedly Part 15 compliant devices that spew copious amounts of RFI into the surroundings are always ignored.

 

[hbiss]

I am always surprised that people focus on things like house wiring and routers causing EMF and RFI. Ask a ham radio operator about it. The biggest offenders by orders of magnitudes are plasma TV's, surveillance cameras, battery chargers, touch lamps, CFL's, some computer displays....the list of supposedly Part 15 compliant devices that spew copious amounts of RFI into the surroundings are always ignored.

That's because these whack jobs have to know about something to imagine they are bothered by it. Those things you mention haven't made the top ten list for the tin foil hat brigade like electrical wiring, smart meters and now WIFI routers have. These people are paranoid and have little rational thinking. All these snake oil salesmen are good for is cashing in on these people's illness. Instead of spending money and listening to this garbage they would be better served spending it on mental health professionals and the drugs they need to live a normal life.

-Hal

 

[__dan]

Milham is a good read. He surveys with a patch on his forehead connected to one lead of a Fluke 187. The other lead connects to any ground and reads out directly in microamps. At one point he connects himself (shunting the Fluke 187 on the microamp scale) between his forehead and his palm on the ashphalt and reads the elevated microamps.

A captain in the TFHB.

 

[James Mcdermott]

Milham is a good read. He surveys with a patch on his forehead connected to one lead of a Fluke 187. The other lead connects to any ground and reads out directly in microamps. At one point he connects himself (shunting the Fluke 187 on the microamp scale) between his forehead and his palm on the ashphalt and reads the elevated microamps.

A captain in the TFHB.

Where did you see this? Remember he is first and foremost a M.D. using epidemiology and case study to reach his conclusions. In some cases, Milham attributes DE problems to the "skin effect" where systems designed for 60 Hz might be carrying much higher frequencies. Hopefully someone not from the head in the sand(HITS) brigade can answer if the skin effect could be contributing to elevated fields in the home or work space, if this problem has been solved with current wiring standards, or would only apply to older knob-and-tube for example.