High Leg Delta

It's just the way the transformers are wired. The wild leg is called "wild" because of the wild voltage variations. I've seen 135v, 165v, 189v and 200v in the same day (hot to neutral). POCOs told me it's normal based on the building load, and grid load both.
It is wild because it is higher than 120V.

Per the NEC and ANSI standards the nominal voltage would be a 240/120V delta. By the laws of physics the high leg is always1.732X the center tapped L-G voltage.

Any deviations are due to voltage drop at the load or under voltage supplied by the utility. In both cases this would also impact the nominal 120V L-N and 240 L-L voltages.
 
If someone wants to jam some math, do the calcs for the delta wild leg and then apply different voltages to see how that changes. Actually AI can prob do that little bit with some accuracy. It comes down to phase angle, and all other loads affect it, making that voltage NOT very stable, thus called a "wild leg". However, I do sort of wonder if the variable input loads of the modern can exploit that leg better. LED lighting with 120-277V. Guess I've never tried to move the voltage that much to see what the PSUs do. Will they adjust all that on the fly?

And I do believe it is in code to NOT use that wild leg in a delta.
 
Whats funny is in PECO territory its actually easier to get a *new* two phase service as in 2Ø 5-Wire than a 3-phase 240 Open or Hi-leg Delta, as they severely limit the size of hi-leg Delta to something really low 15kVA per phase, two-phase you can go up to 100kVA still, not that anyone would want a two-phase service. (last I checked the 'blue book')
Well I grew up in the suburbs, but if I walked out my back yard, crossed a small farm field, crossed a shallow creek, another small field, and waded across another bigger creek, I could be in Philly in maybe 10 minutes. So I worked around 2 phase all my life. Last one was a generator repair, maintenance and testing at the Youth Study Center. I think it was about 500 KW 3P and had a Scott T in between the gen and the transfer switch. It's been too long ago for me to remember the specifics of the equipment. What I remember was looking at that big 2 Phase transfer switch and wondering wth that cost.

But I had family and friends down around Port Richmond, with two phase services at their properties. That two phase kept lots of the rewind shops in business. There was a guy in Fishtown I think he called the company "Ampere Electric". I think his name was Greg but he was a pretty decent guy. Years ago there was Beeman Electric Motor that was a big shop but that's been gone a long time. I know it was open when his kids were in Boy Scouts with me, but that had to be early 70's
 
It is wild because it is higher than 120V.

Per the NEC and ANSI standards the nominal voltage would be a 240/120V delta. By the laws of physics the high leg is always1.732X the center tapped L-G voltage.

Any deviations are due to voltage drop at the load or under voltage supplied by the utility. In both cases this would also impact the nominal 120V L-N and 240 L-L voltages.
I don't ever see voltage fluctuations in Delta 240 single phase 2-pole circuits using 1 leg of wild. Only line to neutral on the wild leg.
 
If someone wants to jam some math, do the calcs for the delta wild leg and then apply different voltages to see how that changes. Actually AI can prob do that little bit with some accuracy. It comes down to phase angle, and all other loads affect it, making that voltage NOT very stable, thus called a "wild leg". However, I do sort of wonder if the variable input loads of the modern can exploit that leg better. LED lighting with 120-277V. Guess I've never tried to move the voltage that much to see what the PSUs do. Will they adjust all that on the fly?

And I do believe it is in code to NOT use that wild leg in a delta.
It's called a wild leg by some and a high leg by others. In both cases it's because the voltage to ground is higher than 120V.
 
I don't ever see voltage fluctuations in Delta 240 single phase 2-pole circuits using 1 leg of wild. Only line to neutral on the wild leg.
I've seen variations on open delta 3 phase loads. Spent a lot of time rolling phases on motors to get things balanced out, none of them had any connection to the high leg.
 
In Philly where we had 2 phase, lots of the old 2 phase equipment got hooked up to a high leg service when it got sold or moved. If you ran all 4 conductors out to the motor including the grounded neutral, you could run it with a 3 phase disco, and contactor. You had a phase from A-C and a 90 degree phase from B-N. The problem is the two different voltages A-C 240 and B-N 208. Then there was the impedance on the B-N path being kinda high.

It might not have been right, but it got done that way quite a bit, and it did work
The less loaded the motor was the longer it may last. Amount of usage it sees also factors in. Something running occasionally can take more voltage and current imbalance abuse than many think compared to same abuse if it ran rather continuously.

Motors run on rather basic phase converters can also have similar issues as they often see input voltage imbalance.
 
Hmmm but why would the high lug fluctuate any more that other system voltages? I could see the impedance being a little higher because the load is passing thru more windings. but in practice Ive never seen any more variation that other system connections.
I agree with you, when utility supplied it usually is pretty stable voltage, there is more impedance in that path like you mentioned also. Full vs open delta does factor in as well. Full delta has parallel path from high leg to neutral through the delta where open delta only has one path. Imbalancing load on full delta should likely cause one path to have less impedance than the other during that condition, but current will still take both paths in proportion to those impedances.
 
It's just the way the transformers are wired. The wild leg is called "wild" because of the wild voltage variations. I've seen 135v, 165v, 189v and 200v in the same day (hot to neutral). POCOs told me it's normal based on the building load, and grid load both.
I never seen one vary by that much. I do agree loading conditions will make it vary but most around here will run about 248 to 250 unloaded line to line with high leg at about 214 or 215. Any drop when loaded typically has similar percentage drop line to neutral including high leg to neutral as line to line drop, especially with full delta systems. I could see some more extremes if you have a large lighting pot and a small stinger pot for an open delta and you basically load the high leg to more than the rating of the stinger pot, but also don't think you would see as low as 135 volts unless they have such high overcurrent protection on their transformer that it won't open until the primary winding has actually faulted out.
 
And I do believe it is in code to NOT use that wild leg in a delta.
I don't think so. The lack of proper rated breakers, limited availability and/or price if they are attainable usually is what discourages it.

Two pole 240 volt loads is certainly more acceptable by many as a way to utilize this leg than a high leg to neutral load is, especially if the delta is a full delta and not a open delta or even full delta but with different transformer sizes involved in it's make up. As mentioned a little earlier pretty much all the still in existence breaker manufacturers have a straight 240 volt rated two pole breaker but probably not a straight 240 volt rated single pole breaker (without going into the 277, 277/480 class breakers and panelboards). AFAIK all 250 volt class three pole breakers are rated straight 240 volts so you can always use those on a high leg. Straight rated 240 two pole breakers I last priced many years ago were 1. not in stock at supplier and 2. were near enough to same price as a three pole that if you really wanted to use the high leg you might as well purchase a three pole breaker that is on hand.
 
In Philly where we had 2 phase, lots of the old 2 phase equipment got hooked up to a high leg service when it got sold or moved. If you ran all 4 conductors out to the motor including the grounded neutral, you could run it with a 3 phase disco, and contactor. You had a phase from A-C and a 90 degree phase from B-N. The problem is the two different voltages A-C 240 and B-N 208. Then there was the impedance on the B-N path being kinda high.

It might not have been right, but it got done that way quite a bit, and it did work

If you think about how a 'scott-T' is connected, that approach is pretty similar except for the two different voltages. Add a small buck-boost transformer and you would be pretty close to proper two phase 4 wire.
 
The high leg doesn't play any role in three phase loads, or line to line single phase loads. Any fluctuation in the voltage from high leg to neutral is accounted somewhere else in the system. It has to be.
Really any voltage instability would be due to it being an open bank, and not having that third trans. If you think about it. a tap in the middle of a secondary connected to the MGN and the customer's service drop neutral, really doesn't mean much
 
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