HO wants to help

[weressl]

Here you go:

3) I think that at the end it seems to me that some sort of compromise is necessary.

I can fully understand that a small or single person operation can not afford to visit a small job, just to give you an estimate without compensation. That is true if that person is busy 12 hours a day, 5 days a week. If a person is that busy, then he can afford to hire another person, evenm just halftime and can offer to the calling HO, to 'swing by' on the way home to take a look at what he wants IF it can not be described through the phone.

If its out of the way, then he can suggest to the HO to find somebody close by.

So the end of it is, that the charge for the estimate visit should be left loose and if it is just a 10 min. stop on the way home, it should be on the house.

If the HO is out of the way and still insist to go with ya, then you can inform him that this is how much out of the way he is and this is the time and gas it will cost him for you to come out. We're talking about less that $700 or so jobs. If the job is over $1K, the estimate should be free like the big boys do it.

There's 4 that I found in 10 minutes.

Anybody else agree with me?

In this instance my opinion was given as a Customer. I also offered a compromise, backing up from my original statement that 'free' estimate may not always be the way to go. In my experience, I have never even heard of, lest paid for, any estimate for home repair or small construction jobs at the home and definetly not in the industrial world.

(You listed a bunch of quotes from me, but offered no viewpoint on how do you consider them to be in error or false.)

 

[weressl]

Here you go:

4) Nope, you trying to deny the basic premise of free market enterprise.

Before I commit a couple of thou$ I would like to know what am I getting for my money. Since I (the average HO) do not have in-depth knowledge of what I am buying, I need to have some comparitive idea of what price range is reasonable. With the estimate, I would also ask for an explanation of what is going to be done.

So I think every honest businessmen would try to give me a fairly detailed explanation to make me comfortable with the offering, that I get value for my money.

Fair and open competititon is the essence of free market, the foundation of the US economy. Participation in this system is voluntary. If you don't like it feel free to move somewhere else, or introduce your own system. Wish you luck in that.No better system exist on the world, yet.

The concept of the buyer have to pay for the information of what he wants to buy seems utterly ridicoulus.

There's 4 that I found in 10 minutes.

Anybody else agree with me?

Please explain what is your issue with this.

 

[electricguy61]

I won't disagree on the technical issues.

I believe your statements as quoted, as well as many others posted to this forum, show that the extent of your experience is in the industrial environment as an engineer. Hence my comment that you should stick to what you know, as opposed to commenting on electrical contracting issues (residential and commercial) that you don't seem to have any experience with.

That being said, I apologize for any perceived personal insult.

I've spent enough time on this now.

End of discussion.

 

[tonyou812]

I dont think its such a great idea to have them help. what if they get hurt and get sue happy, saying they were helping you, or what if they do something stupid to their house and try to blame it on you. Would you go to a restaurant and ask if you could cook your own food for a discount? would you ask your lawyer/accountant if you could do some of the paper work? About the only think ill let them do is sweep up and thats only if they say "oh dont worry about it ill get that I gotta clean anyway."

It shows a real lack of buisness sense for them to ask for a discount. Dont they realize you went into buisness to make money? and not do favors. Does the HO not think you are providing a good value for your work? If they dont have enough money than they can either wait untill they do or maybe trim their wish list a bit.

I always love it when people cheap out on electric but have no problem spending 5 grand on a stove that they will rarely use, or tile that costs 12 dollars a foot. But I guess that works out to our advantage, after they live in the house or renovation for a while they start to remember the walk through you had with them and wish they went for that extra 4 way or outside recept or lights instead of switch outlets,

 

[Wire 2 Race]

You gotta stand your ground. Put value to your knowlege and work. Te only thing I'd let the Ho do is dig trench , install lamps, and demo work.

Not the only thing, LET THE HO GO BUY LUNCH :grin: :grin:

 

[jimmyglen]

SiddMartin kind of touched on this

If the guy helping you feels that he knows enough - then the next day you come back and find out your helper worked late after you left and ITS ALL DONE!!!

dont need you anymore

 

[LarryFine]

That's fine, as long as he doesn't expect a discount for doing that.

After all, you gotta check your helper's work; it's still your license.

 

[DownRiverGUy]

One concern I'd have is this..

Say a person helps with some installs of outlets, lighting etc.

9 times out of 10 I'm going to guess the HO will now have enough knowledge to be VERY dangerous.

"Ok gotta put in a new outlet. Screw calling the electrician I can do it myself! Hmm what's this green screw on the outlet for again.... *shrug* works without it!"

 

[480sparky]

One concern I'd have is this..

Say a person helps with some installs of outlets, lighting etc.

9 times out of 10 I'm going to guess the HO will now have enough knowledge to be VERY dangerous.

"Ok gotta put in a new outlet. Screw calling the electrician I can do it myself! Hmm what's this green screw on the outlet for again.... *shrug* works without it!"

I intentionally sabotage my own work during rough-in to insure my return to trim out.

I always pigtail the hot & neutral in a box for each general-purpose circuit somewhere (usually a switch box). When I make up that box, I put an orange wire nut on the black & white, creating a dead short. No twisting them, just connect with the wire nut.

When I return to trim, the orange wire nut gets removed, and the wires seperated. Both wires are capped, then trim as usual.

If, however, the HO does exactly what DRG says, guess what happens? As soon as he turns on the power, BOOM! And who's he gonna call? Me.

"Well, Mister Homeowner, our contract is for a complete job. If you want to pay me the remaining balance, I'll be more then happy to come out and complete the work. Oh, and by the way, I'm going to charge you our normal service-call rates to verify the things you did to my work are not hazardous. This can be very time-consuming......."

 

[mivey]

I intentionally sabotage my own work during rough-in to insure my return to trim out.

I always pigtail the hot & neutral in a box for each general-purpose circuit somewhere (usually a switch box). When I make up that box, I put an orange wire nut on the black & white, creating a dead short. No twisting them, just connect with the wire nut.

When I return to trim, the orange wire nut gets removed, and the wires seperated. Both wires are capped, then trim as usual.

If, however, the HO does exactly what DRG says, guess what happens? As soon as he turns on the power, BOOM! And who's he gonna call? Me.

"Well, Mister Homeowner, our contract is for a complete job. If you want to pay me the remaining balance, I'll be more then happy to come out and complete the work. Oh, and by the way, I'm going to charge you our normal service-call rates to verify the things you did to my work are not hazardous. This can be very time-consuming......."

So this ain't your first rodeo, eh? :smile:

 

[weressl]

Not the only thing, LET THE HO GO BUY LUNCH :grin: :grin:

I was startled for a moment before realizing HO means Home Owner

 

[aline]

"Ok gotta put in a new outlet. Screw calling the electrician I can do it myself! Hmm what's this green screw on the outlet for again.... *shrug* works without it!"

Lately I've been getting calls where the homeowner replaced the switch themselves and now it doesn't work. When I get there I find a hot wire attached to the green ground screw. In one case they replaced a 3-way switch with a single pole switch and attached one of the travellers to the green ground screw. The old switches were not the grounding type and didn't have the green grounding screw. I guess they figured they need to have something connected to the green screw so they just hooked up something.

 

[wawireguy]

I'd tell him keeping the basement clean, providing temp lighting if necessary and having a solid plan of what he wants before you show up would save him money.

 

[macmikeman]

Lately I've been getting calls where the homeowner replaced the switch themselves and now it doesn't work. When I get there I find a hot wire attached to the green ground screw. In one case they replaced a 3-way switch with a single pole switch and attached one of the travellers to the green ground screw. The old switches were not the grounding type and didn't have the green grounding screw. I guess they figured they need to have something connected to the green screw so they just hooked up something.

I had a general contractor who managed to do that same thing at his own house. So then he calls me and I already know that he is a bottom feeder type. His first words were "are you going to charge me just to drive over here?"

 

[jaylectricity]

I was startled for a moment before realizing HO means Home Owner

I like the way you think.

 

[iaov]

I never get mad at people for trying to save money because I do it all the time. Here is something to think about, if things are really tight then a person doesn't decide to remodel a basement. Every dollar that they save on electrical they normally spend somewhere else.

I can help a homewowner save money on most jobs but this normally just means cutting the scope of work somewhat and not lowering the price on each fixture.

I have seen a HO cry and complain about not having money for fixtures and then go out and buy the most expensive cabinets made or get a really high end counter top. The money is normally there it just depends on who gets it, the electrician or the counter guy.

Absalutely. Good point!!

 

[iaov]

The best thing to do with a HO that wants to help is send them to the store for something. When they get get back send them for something else...over & over.

Dave

Excellent idea. Most HO's are PIA and in the way. They want to talk more than anything else. One of our members here says his rates are 100 an hour, 125 if you watch, and 150 if you help!!

 

[iaov]

I had a general contractor who managed to do that same thing at his own house. So then he calls me and I already know that he is a bottom feeder type. His first words were "are you going to charge me just to drive over here?"

a friend had his shotgun fixed the other day. He took it to the gunsmith and the guy fixed it in less than a minute and charged him 40 bucks. When my buddy objected the gunsmith told him you are not paying me for what I did, you are paying me for what I know!!