home inspectors

[billdozier]

Ive got a customer who wants to get her house updated for appraisal. and ive got a few questions. The house has two plugs in the kitchen one at the stove and one at the sink seperate walls my thinking is I have to add additional plugs to meet code am I correct? also her subpanel is fed by a 3 wire system does this have to be updated? im not tearing down any walls only fishing new wires in. no work in the bedrooms therefore no need to upgrade to arcfaults correct?

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

How old is the house?

If it was built that way years ago I would think could be left alone unless you wanted to bring it up to current code standards.

 

[billdozier]

1940s with an upgrade sometime in the 80s just want to pass the home inspectors inspection not to familiar with what they require

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I do not believe anything must be done unless there were violation of the NEC. If the house was wired to code in the 50's or 60's, for instance, then one would not need to upgrade. Now if the ho wants to get a higher appraisal then I am not sure that adding any outlets will affect the appraisal value much at all.

 

[NolaTigaBait]

unless you open the walls 50%, you won't need to upgrade to current codes...im sure the inspector will mention things like the neutral and grounds being bonded in a subpanel, etc...but, i don't think you'll be required to do anything

 

[Buck Parrish]

I agree with the others. Just go in the attic and crawl space. Look for any open splices or loose wires and fix them, if any. Any wiring around the furnace disconects , etc...
Any unused openings in the panel double tapped breakers. Fix any broken outlets or switches. Every light and power outlet should be working.

 

[growler]

1940s with an upgrade sometime in the 80s just want to pass the home inspectors inspection not to familiar with what they require

A home inspection is not a code inspection and there is no pass or fail. The home inspector list items that he believes would be of concern to the buyer with no power to force any changes. The home inspection report is just an opinion and the buyer can choose to disregard or use it to bargain on price.

Get the home inspection report first and then let the buyer and seller decide what repairs they wish to have done. Unless it's a hazard you are not required to change anything ( In most areas).

If it's an FHA inspector or one from the bank that's different because they hold the money for the loan and can require changes to be made.

 

[iwire]

As far as when a home will be legally required to be brought up to current code will vary in each area. There is no standard rule such as '50%'.

As far as home inspectors, there are few areas that home inspectors have any authority at all to require any change. They are not code inspectors, they are home inspectors and can recommend any improvements they feel should be done. After that it is between the seller and the buyer to work out a deal.

In my area I can expect home inspectors to recommend GFCIs in every area that currently requires them. Non-grounded circuits to be replaced, ratty service equipment repaired and of course any open boxes or splices to be closed up.

Personally I don't understand why ECs do are not happy to get this work created by home inspectors.

 

[billdozier]

im all for the work and I think im going recomend she have a home inspector come out before I begin that way if I missed anything I dont look like a da hate that I spent an hour walking the house making her a list but ill be able to see how close I am to accuracy thanks 4 the help

 

[growler]

im all for the work and I think im going recomend she have a home inspector come out before I begin that way if I missed anything I dont look like a da hate that I spent an hour walking the house making her a list but ill be able to see how close I am to accuracy thanks 4 the help

When you present an invoice for the work make sure to state openly that you are not performing a home inspection that you are only repairing items listed as of concern by the home inspector. Make a list of items on the report and state clearly how each item was corrected. If the homeowner makes a decision not to repair an item make sure it's listed as the homeowner decision and that the item has not been repaired. If you notice any hazards while there you can also make a note of those and any decisions made about repairs. Keep a copy of the report for your records.

Some people will assume that an invoice from an electrician means everything in the house is up to snuff but put a limit on repairs to those paid for and that all that's covered by warranty. Limit your liability as much as possible, I do and I have never had one that had any problems at closing. Most people just consider it a formality.

 

[NolaTigaBait]

There is no standard rule such as '50%'.

it's standard here...

 

[iwire]

it's standard here...

I have no doubt at all that is true, I was trying to point out that there is no standard from one area to another. :smile:

Some areas require a home to be brought up to code if the meter has been pulled for a certain length of time, another area might say when the value of the remodeling exceeds a certain percentage of the price of the home and yet another area may not ever require updating.

 

[cschmid]

1940s with an upgrade sometime in the 80s just want to pass the home inspectors inspection not to familiar with what they require

Why pay them to do what you are qualified to do....

A home inspection is not a code inspection and there is no pass or fail. The home inspector list items that he believes would be of concern to the buyer with no power to force any changes. The home inspection report is just an opinion and the buyer can choose to disregard or use it to bargain on price.

Get the home inspection report first and then let the buyer and seller decide what repairs they wish to have done. Unless it's a hazard you are not required to change anything ( In most areas).

If it's an FHA inspector or one from the bank that's different because they hold the money for the loan and can require changes to be made.

Good Points...

im all for the work and I think im going recomend she have a home inspector come out before I begin that way if I missed anything I dont look like a da hate that I spent an hour walking the house making her a list but ill be able to see how close I am to accuracy thanks 4 the help

Why give Business to a unqaulified person..you are the licensed electrician not the HI..they take weekend course and tell you what to do..I will never understand why we give business to unlicensed people..inspecting electrical takes a license..

 

[iwire]

Why pay them to do what you are qualified to do....

Here in MA and in many areas a licensed electrician is not legally qualified to perform a home inspection.

If the bank or buyer is requiring a true home inspection here in MA the inspector must be a licensed home inspector. In RI a GC can do home inspections.

 

[Volta]

Why give Business to a unqaulified person..you are the licensed electrician not the HI..they take weekend course and tell you what to do..I will never understand why we give business to unlicensed people..inspecting electrical takes a license..

If it is a regular home inspection paid for by the buyer, they will look at the structure, roof, hvac, plumbing, driveway, etc., more than just the electrical system. Invariably, they miss things we would find in our trade(s), but it is usually wise for the potential purchaser to get an overall idea of the building's condition.

In Ohio, the EC cannot inspect, for pay, "compliance with Code". Must be licensed as an electrical inspector by the state to do that. So an EC or HI can state that something should be changed, is a hazard, or may fail soon, but they cannot say it meets code.

 

[c2500]

(***Disclaimer*** The following comments are based on my experience in South Carolina and not intended to offend or degrade the Home Inspection Industry or those that are in anyway associated with the industry)

If you were in my neck of the woods, a home inspection will basically suggest that everything that is not currently in compliance to the version of code in use, be upgraded to do so. There is no set rule for this, but some reports I have seen will scare you to death if you did not know better. In SC, there is a state mandated form that is used. This said, I would suggest you, as an electrician go look through and make the necessary repairs that you see as being required. Then have the inspector come through. I have seen HI's harp on trivial things while missing major problems. An example was catching a bad GFI receptacle while missing the floors cupping in one corner of a room (Master shower was leaking) HI's seem to be trained to catch the obvious. Most of the ones I have dealt with had only been licensed as HI with no background in construction.

The usual culprits I have seen cited are open junction boxes, flying splices, grounded receptacles in a non-grounded system.

As for missing something, if you pay attention, and treat this as a game to find everything wrong, I doubt you will miss much. I know the HI's here are only liable for the amount of money you pay them. So if they miss something, they give a refund and are on their merry way.

You might inquire with your insurance agent that you are covered to give electrical inspections.

I know I get ask every year if by mine if I am doing Home Inspections (as I am also a licenced builder, I have the right to do them. If I was a licensed architect, I could do them...why the state allows this, I will never understand)

c2500

 

[bradleyelectric]

Sometimes I just shake my head when I read these threads. The original post was titled home inspectors, but asked about an appraisal. These are 2 different things. The HO probably wants to refi and needs an appraisal, which involves a different person than a home inspector. An appraiser looks for different things than a home inspector does.

 

[LarryFine]

As far as when a home will be legally required to be brought up to current code will vary in each area. There is no standard rule such as '50%'.

Never generalize!

Around here, there is a 50% rule, as applied to floor area of a structure. If your renovation hits that mark, the entire structure must be brought to present codes. All of them.

Personally I don't understand why ECs do are not happy to get this work created by home inspectors.

My closest brushes with HI's have been in the other direction: Rave reviews of a modern 200a breaker panel, with the exception of the dreaded 'double tap' and recommendation of the immediate calling of an EC to remedy the problem.

Meanwhile, the original 100a meter base and line-side cable, 100% lack of any cable clamps, zero electrodes or GEC's, and over-OCP'ed branch-circuit wires remain completely overlooked and unmentioned.

Both of these non-permitted, non-inspected, and non-compliant service almost-upgrades were the direct result of a who-knows-how-legal central-HVAC addition to the houses, by the way.

One of these resulted in a burned-through line-side terminal in the meter base, bringing about an emergency shut-down by the POCO, who would not reconnect until an inspection was received from the county.

The second caused a fire because the only thing even remotely resembling an electrode connection was the EGC in the water-heater cable, and there was an over-voltage brought into the house by a storm.


I have a problem with incompetence in any field.

 

[iwire]

Never generalize!

Larry I did not, that was the point. Your area 50% another area not, ..... no standard.

 

[cschmid]

I am with Larry on this issue..I guess I have seen to many under qualified HI's..When I meet one who actually knows something about the home building industry as in qualified inspector..one that is state certified and has liability for more then just his fee..one that could actually back his assets up in court with his knowledge of what he is doing and why it needs to be done..not one who is in it for the fee..I will change my tune..

as far as I can tell this is just a way to suck money out of the seller..You buy houses as is...what part of as is do you not understand..if you have a structural issue you will still have to hire a lawyer and sue the previous owner if possible..So what does an HI do..out side of cost extra money for a unqualified opinion..

These are my opinions alone..this does not mean every HI is unqualified..It just means I have yet to meet one who is..I also see that the HI carries absolutely no responsibility and the state gives them no credibility..other wise they could do contract inspections..