home inspectors

[romeo]

home inspectors

I am with Larry on this issue..I guess I have seen to many under qualified HI's..When I meet one who actually knows something about the home building industry as in qualified inspector..one that is state certified and has liability for more then just his fee..one that could actually back his assets up in court with his knowledge of what he is doing and why it needs to be done..not one who is in it for the fee..I will change my tune..

as far as I can tell this is just a way to suck money out of the seller..You buy houses as is...what part of as is do you not understand..if you have a structural issue you will still have to hire a lawyer and sue the previous owner if possible..So what does an HI do..out side of cost extra money for a unqualified opinion..

These are my opinions alone..this does not mean every HI is unqualified..It just means I have yet to meet one who is..I also see that the HI carries absolutely no responsibility and the state gives them no credibility..other wise they could do contract inspections..

I am sure there are some qualified HI,but there is one I know that is not.

A HO was unhappy with the GC that built there new home,so they hired a HI to do a inspection of the home. The HI saw the interior water system piping bonding conductor and confused it to be the gec. He told the HO that the gec could not go to the water pipe because the underground water pipe was plastic.

I previously inspected and approved the final wiring of the home. The HO filed a complaint against me with the town board of Selectmen, needless to say I was called before the Board,and had to do some explaining.

I contacted the HI and ask him for something in writing and for the section of the NEC that was violated,but he would not give me anything and also refused to appear before the board with me.

By the way the gec was attached to the well casing. Made me lose a lot of respect for that HI, but not for all of them.

 

[jrannis]

Its all good until that spot that "cloth covered wire"

 

[cschmid]

My whole thought is what good are they..They have no creditable credentials and their inspections mean nothing leagally..so what is the point except to extract potential home buyers cash for nothing more then an opinion..

Yet some of you stick up for them..wait until it is your work they critique and you spend you profit in legal fees to collect your final payment..

Soon as the State thinks they are creditable enough to do legal inspections then I will give more respect to the HI industry..

 

[growler]

Soon as the State thinks they are creditable enough to do legal inspections then I will give more respect to the HI industry..

The inspections that home inspectors do are legal they are just not enforceable code inspections. It is a legal business.

The only reason that government or private inspection companies have the power to enforce code is that local laws were enacted to give them that power. There are still areas where you can build without an inspection.

The reason some people don't have respect for HIs is that they don't do their leg work and find a good one. They normally choose a home inspector based on price and we know what that gets you.

I know of a couple that will really go out there and dig in and find most all problems but they are not the cheapest. It takes time and effort to do a real inspection ( not 2 hours ).

If you know anything about construction you can do your own home inspection and do as well or better than the professionals but that's because you will invest all the time needed.

Home inspections are for people that don't know anything and may miss the obvious when they purchase a home. It's just a check list of common problems and that's all it is.

The real problem is that people expect a home inspection to be something that it's not ( the good house-keeping seal of approval). It's not intusive and not in-depth, it's actually very limited and is designed for the company to make money and limit the liability of the inspection company.

If a home owner really wants to spend some money they can hire professional electricans, plumbers and HVAC professionals to do an in-depth inspection. Most don't figure it's worth it. In a high end older home they probably should invest the extra money to make sure things are really up to snuff and even get a professional appraisal.

Many people don't even know what type of mortgage they are getting so a little professional help would be needed there to. I met a lady the other day that didn't know she has adjustable rate until the payments went up, at that time it was fully explained to her.

 

[480sparky]

HIs have the same legal standing as your mechanic.

Go to a car lot and ask to take a used car to your own mechanic. He'll look it over and probably find problems with it (needs transmission fluid changed, or worn tires, whatever). What he finds is his opinion of what is wrong with the vehicle. He has no authority over the dealer to tell him to fix things.

And neither do I. I can either decide not to purchase the vehicle, take the vehicle as it is faults and all, or use my mechanic's 'report' to negotiate with. Those negotiations may result in a lower price, the dealer fixing the problems, or a combination of both.

My mechanic is engaged in a legal business. I pay him for his time and experience.

 

[cschmid]

lol that it..I can either choose to use an HI or not..one will no dawn my property..using a mechanic is like comparing apples to oranges..If the mechanic screws up my ride I will get more then the fee..if the HI screws up an inspection he can only loose his fee..nothing more..

I can understand some people have no idea about structural or even construction deffects..not to know the type of mortgage one has when it is major investment..not good business..good Realtor can do same thing as HI and normally does..realator has disclosure forms to use..You still buy as-is...

buying used car with guarantee on it is different then buying house..apples and oranges...

 

[c2500]

buying used car with guarantee on it is different then buying house..apples and oranges...

Thats why they have home warranties:smile: And of course give the work out to the cheapest guy they can find:roll:

c2500

PS: Wouldn't it be great if we screwed up a service upgrade and the house burned down....we just gave the customer their $2000-$3000 back and said...sorry

 

[cschmid]

Thats why they have home warranties:smile: And of course give the work out to the cheapest guy they can find:roll:

c2500

PS: Wouldn't it be great if we screwed up a service upgrade and the house burned down....we just gave the customer their $2000-$3000 back and said...sorry

yea that be nice..heres your 8k sorry no hard feelings...:smile:

man I am glad do not have to deal with that no more..I have empathy for all thoughs people who get sucked into the HI game and spend hundreds of unnecessary dollars on bogus problems..

If I am sticking more money in my house I am expecting an increased sale price..If I can not achieve at least a 5% increase in my money in realestate I will invest it in other areas..

I have seen no home warrenties in this area..If it was me I would not put one on a house here unless I was building tract houses and selling them..to buy a house that is 40years old to paint it and flip it and then warrenty it would be foolish..

edited to add: if we anticipate getting more then 10% back on your investment in flipping houses, you are part of why our housing market has crashed..you make your money on buying repairing and selling contract for deed..the interest is the profit..

 

[growler]

I have empathy for all thoughs people who get sucked into the HI game and spend hundreds of unnecessary dollars on bogus problems..

I have never seen any bogus problems for electrical in a home inspection report exept for one idiot that tried to do voltage drop calculations. Even that house did have two or three legitimate electrical problems.

I have noticed that the sellers of said houses think the problems are bogus. Such things as open junction boxes in attic, GFCI receptacles that are not working properly and over sized breakers, loose boxes for receptacles and cover plates missing and a few flying splices. These may not be major problems but if they are not listed then the home inspector is not doing his job. The sellers of homes normally say it all working so what's the problem.

No one forces the seller to spend one dollar on home repairs they can always look for another buyer. :wink:

It boils down to this, the seller of a home doesn't want to see anything on the home inspection report and the buyer wants the inspector to find every little problem. So someone is always going to be unhappy with the report. :-?

 

[charlietuna]

One home inspector explained the deal he had with the real estate outfit he worked for--- he got "50% of what he found wrong electrically and was negotiated off the selling price of the house" ! There are only a few home inspectors with electrical experience enough to quote code violations from what i see. And like many electrcal inspectors, they look for items they were taught in "Home Inspector School"--like GFI protection ! The problem i have seen since their inception is that they are used only as a method to reduce the cost of homes--once sold, these items are never corrected. The correct method should have been "Qualified Inspections" with a follow up permited inspection by a local government official. Then homes would be brought up to code at least on life safety issues! Every time i have been called to correct Home Inspector's findings kind of makes me sick--thinking this guy got paid !

 

[growler]

The problem i have seen since their inception is that they are used only as a method to reduce the cost of homes--once sold, these items are never corrected. The correct method should have been "Qualified Inspections" with a follow up permited inspection by a local government official.

They do have that type of inspection if the power has been off for a given lenght of time ( 6 months to one year for different areas).

A licensed electrician must inspect the electrical system and get approval from the local inspection department before the power can be turned on.

Home inspections of the general kind are not mandatory but voluntary. For most of the country the local goverments don't want the hassle of being involved in private home sales and the people don't want them involved.

I have been on many service calls where the probelms were corrected because it was much cheaper to have problems repaired than to negotiate but the choice is theirs. Once on the job an electrician can write up any problems he finds and include them with a report on repairs ( they normally want this for the closing). If you find a real hazard you can then report it to the Fire Marshal or the electrical inspection department.

If you are buying a house and an inspection report can help you negotiate the price down 10K don't you think it would be crazy not to get one or you can try to negotiate on your own without it. If I thought it would help and I was buying a house I would bring a lawyer, an accountant and an Indian Chief with me to help bargain.

People spend money on Chiropractors, palm readers and even give money to the Church and none of these have ever been proven to give any results. It's personal choice.

If you get rid of all the bogus crap in our society then you eliminate half the economy. Bottled water is just tap water in a bottle folks.

 

[tonyou812]

As far as when a home will be legally required to be brought up to current code will vary in each area. There is no standard rule such as '50%'.

As far as home inspectors, there are few areas that home inspectors have any authority at all to require any change. They are not code inspectors, they are home inspectors and can recommend any improvements they feel should be done. After that it is between the seller and the buyer to work out a deal.

In my area I can expect home inspectors to recommend GFCIs in every area that currently requires them. Non-grounded circuits to be replaced, ratty service equipment repaired and of course any open boxes or splices to be closed up.

Personally I don't understand why ECs do are not happy to get this work created by home inspectors.

I agree. The more the better. That and I get alot of two family home's that need a licsence EC to fix.

 

[LarryFine]

I have never seen any bogus problems for electrical in a home inspection report exept for one idiot that tried to do voltage drop calculations.

What about a claim by a HI that the service cable (not the triplex drop) on a house that's been humming happily away for over 30 years suddenly must be relocated to be more than three feet from a window?

 

[LarryFine]

Bottled water is just tap water in a bottle folks.

For the most part, that's true. Some are just filtered municipal water.

I've seen a bottle label that states "100% Pure Bottled Water" Honest.

"Yes, folks! 100% of the water in this bottle is in this bottle!" :grin:

 

[Volta]

What about a claim by a HI that the service cable (not the triplex drop) on a house that's been humming happily away for over 30 years suddenly must be relocated to be more than three feet from a window?

30 years of violation.

2322 (1947) Service drops shall not be readily accessible and shall conform to the following:
c. Conductors shall have a clearance of not less than 36 inches from window, doors, porches, fire escapes, or similar locations.

2324 (1940) Service drops shall not be readily accessible. They shall have a clearance of not less than 36 inches from readily accessible windows, doors, and porches.

2324 (1937) Service drops shall not be readily accessible.

 

[bradleyelectric]

For the most part, that's true. Some are just filtered municipal water.

I've seen a bottle label that states "100% Pure Bottled Water" Honest.

"Yes, folks! 100% of the water in this bottle is in this bottle!" :grin:

That's not all they are saying with that statement. It is also reflecting the fact that it is indeed water.

 

[LarryFine]

30 years of violation.

2322 (1947) Service drops shall not be readily accessible and shall conform to the following:
c. Conductors shall have a clearance of not less than 36 inches from window, doors, porches, fire escapes, or similar locations.

2324 (1940) Service drops shall not be readily accessible. They shall have a clearance of not less than 36 inches from readily accessible windows, doors, and porches.

2324 (1937) Service drops shall not be readily accessible.

230.9 Clearance from Building Openings. Service conductors
and final spans shall comply with 230.9(A), (B),
and (C).
(A) Clearance from Windows. Service conductors installed
as open conductors or multiconductor cable without
an overall outer jacket shall have a clearance of not less
than 900 mm (3 ft) from windows that are designed to be
opened, doors, porches, balconies, ladders, stairs, fire escapes,
or similar locations.
Exception: Conductors run above the top level of a window
shall be permitted to be less than the 900-mm (3-ft)
requirement.

1) SE cable has an overall outer jacket.

2) The POA is above the window tops.

 

[LarryFine]

30 years of violation.

2322 (1947) Service drops shall not be readily accessible and shall conform to the following:
c. Conductors shall have a clearance of not less than 36 inches from window, doors, porches, fire escapes, or similar locations.

2324 (1940) Service drops shall not be readily accessible. They shall have a clearance of not less than 36 inches from readily accessible windows, doors, and porches.

2324 (1937) Service drops shall not be readily accessible.

230.9 Clearance from Building Openings. Service conductors
and final spans shall comply with 230.9(A), (B),
and (C).
(A) Clearance from Windows. Service conductors installed
as open conductors or multiconductor cable without
an overall outer jacket shall have a clearance of not less
than 900 mm (3 ft) from windows that are designed to be
opened, doors, porches, balconies, ladders, stairs, fire escapes,
or similar locations.
Exception: Conductors run above the top level of a window
shall be permitted to be less than the 900-mm (3-ft)
requirement.

1) SE cable has an overall outer jacket.

2) The POA is above the window tops.


I wrote a letter of explanation, citing their report and responding with the NEC, and the HI company rescinded that section of the report.

 

[Volta]

Uh

Uh

Whoops. You were pretty clear about "not the triplex drop".
Sorry about that.

 

[LarryFine]

Whoops. You were pretty clear about "not the triplex drop".
Sorry about that.

[size=+1]"Ees okay![/size]​