websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
home owner permit
- Thread starter websparky
- Start date
- Status
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: home owner permit
Can't tell for sure, but is that URD inside building lines?
Can't tell for sure, but is that URD inside building lines?
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: home owner permit
I've seen worse by "licensed" electricians.
I've seen worse by "licensed" electricians.
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: home owner permit
I hate to see so much raggedy romex insulation inside the panel, but that's a workmanship issue.
This appears to be main panel, and not a subpanel, so I'm not sure why the special effort was made to seperate the grounds and neutrals. It makes for a messy panel with the grounds and neutrals criss-crossing the panel to get to their respective bars.
I note the missing bushing on the PVC conduit.
That yellow stripe is the giveaway that it's URD. Some (maybe all) of the URD that I've installed lately is dual rated as XHHW.
I hate to see so much raggedy romex insulation inside the panel, but that's a workmanship issue.
This appears to be main panel, and not a subpanel, so I'm not sure why the special effort was made to seperate the grounds and neutrals. It makes for a messy panel with the grounds and neutrals criss-crossing the panel to get to their respective bars.
I note the missing bushing on the PVC conduit.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: home owner permit
How many cables are allowed in one connector?
[ November 06, 2005, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
How many cables are allowed in one connector?
[ November 06, 2005, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: home owner permit
Why was the photographer lying on the floor?
Why was the photographer lying on the floor?
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: home owner permit
In this photo with the angle of it , I think dave was wanting us to note the amout of NM in each NM connector but also I see where there are a few doubled up neutrals and neutral with EGC's on the neutral bar. There are some panels that do require seperate EGC bar as there is not enough terminals on the neutral bar following 408.20
Is there a main bonding jumper? Can't tell
Because he was laughing his a*** off
In this photo with the angle of it , I think dave was wanting us to note the amout of NM in each NM connector but also I see where there are a few doubled up neutrals and neutral with EGC's on the neutral bar. There are some panels that do require seperate EGC bar as there is not enough terminals on the neutral bar following 408.20
Is there a main bonding jumper? Can't tell
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: home owner permit
If any of my men did work like this i would send them to McDonalds.Not for a treat but to return to there old job.
If any of my men did work like this i would send them to McDonalds.Not for a treat but to return to there old job.
lady sparks lover
Senior Member
Re: home owner permit
that's the worst installation I've see in a while. is he a DYI?
Lady
that's the worst installation I've see in a while. is he a DYI?
Lady
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
Re: home owner permit
I don't see anything wrong about running the grounds and neutrals to separate bars. It is not necessary but it is not wrong either.
It is messy looking but not a lot worse than a lot of stuff I see in industrial facilities after equipment has been there a few years.
Might be some issues that are not obvious to me (other than the ones already pointed out), but it seems to me that neatness counts, but not all that much. When the cover is on, no one will see it anyway.
The real question in my mind when I see something made up like this is whether it is safe or not. That counts more than neatness to me.
<added> by the way - what is URD?
[ November 07, 2005, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: petersonra ]
I don't see anything wrong about running the grounds and neutrals to separate bars. It is not necessary but it is not wrong either.
It is messy looking but not a lot worse than a lot of stuff I see in industrial facilities after equipment has been there a few years.
Might be some issues that are not obvious to me (other than the ones already pointed out), but it seems to me that neatness counts, but not all that much. When the cover is on, no one will see it anyway.
The real question in my mind when I see something made up like this is whether it is safe or not. That counts more than neatness to me.
<added> by the way - what is URD?
[ November 07, 2005, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: petersonra ]
JohnE
Senior Member
- Location
- Milford, MA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor, Inspector
Re: home owner permit
I believe "URD" is a nickname for USE translating to Underground Residential Development stemming from poco terminology. AKA triplex.
P
Physis 2
Guest
Re: home owner permit
I think it's somewhat messy but I've seen worse from professionals. The NM's per connector I think Dave's gonna tag. But aside from that it doesn't look all that bad for a home owner installation. Bob mentions "whether it's safe", it looks like it is to me.
It does kinda illustrate how non electrical professionals just don't know how everything should be done even though they probably think they know how to do it.
Edit: Error B.
[ November 07, 2005, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: Physis 2 ]
I think it's somewhat messy but I've seen worse from professionals. The NM's per connector I think Dave's gonna tag. But aside from that it doesn't look all that bad for a home owner installation. Bob mentions "whether it's safe", it looks like it is to me.
It does kinda illustrate how non electrical professionals just don't know how everything should be done even though they probably think they know how to do it.
Edit: Error B.
[ November 07, 2005, 11:13 PM: Message edited by: Physis 2 ]
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: home owner permit
Unless manufacturers have changed the listing there are way to many pieces of NM in the connectors.It my eyes aren`t decieving me there is an unused connector on the left side of the panel.
As a foot note I also split my grounds and neutrals on seperate bars but not in an abortion like that a few well placed 8 in. tie wraps can make a really neat job
If any of my guys tried to get away with cr_p like that ,it`s off to D.T.R.E .Did anyone see the 10/3 sheathing,looks like it is within the connector itself and not with the enclosure.
Unless manufacturers have changed the listing there are way to many pieces of NM in the connectors.It my eyes aren`t decieving me there is an unused connector on the left side of the panel.
As a foot note I also split my grounds and neutrals on seperate bars but not in an abortion like that a few well placed 8 in. tie wraps can make a really neat job
If any of my guys tried to get away with cr_p like that ,it`s off to D.T.R.E .Did anyone see the 10/3 sheathing,looks like it is within the connector itself and not with the enclosure.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: home owner permit
The two neutrals per terminal would be a red tag also. 408.21
Counting the neutral terminals down from the top, terminals 1, 6, 8, 10, 11 have more than one wire under a screw.
Jim Do you hire many from there?
The two neutrals per terminal would be a red tag also. 408.21
Counting the neutral terminals down from the top, terminals 1, 6, 8, 10, 11 have more than one wire under a screw.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: home owner permit
Actually no ,because they probably pay more than greenies get here.If you don't believe me ask Allen
Actually no ,because they probably pay more than greenies get here.If you don't believe me ask Allen
websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
Re: home owner permit
The panel is mounted 4" too high and it is a tall panel to begin with!
Also, there is a main disconnect at the meter mounted on the side of the house.
Plus there is at least one violation no one has mentioned yet......
Check the photo below for the manufacturer's labeling instructions for the connectors.
I have always allowed two 12/2 or 14/2 per connector but only one 12/3 or 14/3. For 10/3 it is usually a 3/4 connector.
The panel is mounted 4" too high and it is a tall panel to begin with!
Also, there is a main disconnect at the meter mounted on the side of the house.
Plus there is at least one violation no one has mentioned yet......
Check the photo below for the manufacturer's labeling instructions for the connectors.
I have always allowed two 12/2 or 14/2 per connector but only one 12/3 or 14/3. For 10/3 it is usually a 3/4 connector.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: home owner permit
it did not say 14-3 is ok
it did not say 14-3 is ok
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: home owner permit
Arlington's 3/8" romex connectors allow up to 3 of certain cables. They have a very comprehensive chart of cable combinations here: http://www.aifittings.com/c_19.htm
Their normal 3/8" locknut type connector is the model 840 on the chart.
I forget what the old style connectors were called that were like an aluminium sleeve that you smashed with your nine's were called. They allowed 3, 12-2's.
[ November 07, 2005, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: mdshunk ]
Arlington's 3/8" romex connectors allow up to 3 of certain cables. They have a very comprehensive chart of cable combinations here: http://www.aifittings.com/c_19.htm
Their normal 3/8" locknut type connector is the model 840 on the chart.
I forget what the old style connectors were called that were like an aluminium sleeve that you smashed with your nine's were called. They allowed 3, 12-2's.
[ November 07, 2005, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: mdshunk ]
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: home owner permit
Actually the 841 is comparable to the above post and yes they allow 3 14/2 NM in them and many other combos.
Arlington NM CABLE CONNECTORS
Click on the Click here in Click here for complete cable ranges.
I wonder how Arlington can get it's connectors listed for more and Raco only allows one cable?
For those of you who want a place to go to all the Electrical Manufacturers who have web sites go here Electric Find.com
And don't forget to save it in your favorites or book marks.
Actually the 841 is comparable to the above post and yes they allow 3 14/2 NM in them and many other combos.
Arlington NM CABLE CONNECTORS
Click on the Click here in Click here for complete cable ranges.
I wonder how Arlington can get it's connectors listed for more and Raco only allows one cable?
For those of you who want a place to go to all the Electrical Manufacturers who have web sites go here Electric Find.com
And don't forget to save it in your favorites or book marks.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: home owner permit
OK, a few minor violations. Nothing shown is going to burst into flames or shock anyone. As others have said, I've seen much worse done by so-called "professionals."
OK, a few minor violations. Nothing shown is going to burst into flames or shock anyone. As others have said, I've seen much worse done by so-called "professionals."
- Status