Homeowners doing electrical work.

[cowboyjwc]

This sounds completely unenforceable unless someone is doing commando raid inspections.

"Bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do when they come for you?....."

BUILDING INSPECTOR, EVERYONE ON THE FLOOR...NOW!!.

I've got some Klien tools over here sarge.....Looks like they were doing some electrical work.

....Until proven guilty in a court of law.

:grin:

 

[masterelect1]

HO doing electrical work

HO doing electrical work

In Baltimore City, permits followed by inspection are required for all new work.
Utility will not de-energize without permit on hand.

My question which results from this topic is the homeowners hazard insurance policy. There are clauses in some contracts which prohibit the HO from doing certain types of work which could cause damage to the insured's property.

What if HO does electrical work improperly and house burns down. Fire Marshall determines cause was due to shoddy electrical work. Insurance co. voids policy. HO now is homeless and possibly still has a mortgage payment.

I tell my friends that if they do plumbing, carpentry, painting, etc... the worst thing that can happen is water on the floor, poorly hung door, streaky paint etc... BUT, mess up electrically and you or loved ones can die.

 

[LarryFine]

Not that I eavesdrop all that much, or even go there that much, but most of what I hear is pretty much on target. I have even heard them tell people they don't know and offer to find someone that does.

I have heard some questionable advice from master electricians too.

The biggest problem with explaining how to do stuff is that most people don't listen well enough. We mentally see the details of our work when we describe it, but the inexperienced are incapable of doing so.

To us, "connect" means properly size, measure, cut, strip, place, position, tighten, etc. Who, that has not done this kind of work, can listen to a 5-minute explanation, and go home and do it correctly?

Of course, I'm generalizing, and I don't mean to belittle anyones intelligence or capabilities. It's just that there's a reason apprentiships and licensing require years of on-the-job training, y'know.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

In Baltimore City, permits followed by inspection are required for all new work.
Utility will not de-energize without permit on hand.

My question which results from this topic is the homeowners hazard insurance policy. There are clauses in some contracts which prohibit the HO from doing certain types of work which could cause damage to the insured's property.

What if HO does electrical work improperly and house burns down. Fire Marshall determines cause was due to shoddy electrical work. Insurance co. voids policy. HO now is homeless and possibly still has a mortgage payment.

There are quite a number of what I call urban "myths" out there, designed to exact compliance by striking fear of financial ruin in the hearts of the meek and gulliable.

If your home is insured and faulty work caused a fire, you will be covered. If you drive drunk in your sister's car, you will be covered. An insurance company cannot "void" a policy. They's have to prove intent, IE arson.

I tell my friends that if they do plumbing, carpentry, painting, etc... the worst thing that can happen is water on the floor, poorly hung door, streaky paint etc... BUT, mess up electrically and you or loved ones can die.

That's true, but if their beams and joists aren't right, the house could collapse and they could die too. If the gas leaks, it could explode. If a poorly hung door prevents it's opening to escape, they could die being trapped in a collapsing, burning house.

I'm not against homeowners doing their own wiring. It's their home. Not likely they'd knowingly instally unsafe or dangerous work. I believe too many of our freedoms are being legislated away. What's next, you MUST hire landscapers because too many homeowners chopped off their fingers with a lawnmower? People are entitled to freedom, including the freedom to fail.

But the attemt to drum up work by threatening homeowners that an electrical fire caused by noncompliant work would void their insurance is just crossing the line. That's not the truth - that's the marketing tool for a very hungry electrical contractor.

 

[brantmacga]

i had to do a service call last week for a r/e broker. a buyer had a home inspection done and found that every recep in the home had been changed to a 3-wire type on 2-wire cable, and they all had reversed polarity. h/o, who i'm told had the house built, said he didn't know who did the work, but he'd never had any electrical problems. maybe, i dont know. there were also numerous structural, plumbing, and hvac problems from work the h/o did. i didn't mind though. it was work for me.

speaking of reversed polarity, we did a remodel a few weeks ago. i opened the panel and found a neutral bar full of black wires. the h/o works for a large industrial battery manufacturer. i got a good laugh out of it.

 

[mengelman]

In Texas the homeowner can do his own work to his primary residence.
As much as I hate to see bad work, this is still a free country and I agree with this. We have enough rules.

 

[iwire]

In Mass, a HO can do his own work, but needs a permit, or so the inspectors tell you. If you actually read the statute, it states that notice to the inspector of wires when installing for hire. If you are not charging for it, you do not need to file for a permit, however that is not the way it is enforced.

I agree, with your take on the law here in MA, but how it s enforced depends on what city or town you are in.

I feel very strongly that homeowners have a right to work on their own home.

 

[iwire]

I have heard some questionable advice from master electricians too.

No doubt about that.

Having a license does not mean they are good electricians, it only proves a they meet the requirements for a license.

 

[ptonsparky]

One of the local cities allows the home owner to wire everything but the service. All those covered problems are okay, but the one thing out in the open isn't.

 

[electriciangirl]

How ridiculous is that restriction? OK, so Joe homeowner know zip about electrical work yet his brother is an electrician and he can't help him?

This sounds completely unenforceable unless someone is doing commando raid inspections.

About five years ago, before I was licensed, I helped my dad with the wiring for his kitchen remodel in Wausau, Wi. The inspector had no problem and was fine with it as long as it was my dad's house.

 

[Chenley]

In Kentucky a homeowner can completely wire his/her own home. The electric company here even gives a 40+ page guide on wiring (switched outlets, cable sizing, box fill, etc). The homeowner still needs the necessary service, rough and final inspections.

Also, a homeowner around here can do all their plumbing as long as s/he owns 5+ acres of land that the home is being built on. This doesn't even have to be inspected. That kinda surprises me with how hard Kentucky is on the licensed plumbers. I would think they should pass legislation that it should at least have a rough inspection.

 

[480sparky]

And I get a real chuckle out of the way some HOs do things.

I know of a house wired by the original owner. In order for power to be on in the detached garage, the second-floor bathroom fan must be turned on.

 

[cowboyjwc]

The biggest problem with explaining how to do stuff is that most people don't listen well enough. We mentally see the details of our work when we describe it, but the inexperienced are incapable of doing so.

To us, "connect" means properly size, measure, cut, strip, place, position, tighten, etc. Who, that has not done this kind of work, can listen to a 5-minute explanation, and go home and do it correctly?

Of course, I'm generalizing, and I don't mean to belittle anyones intelligence or capabilities. It's just that there's a reason apprentiships and licensing require years of on-the-job training, y'know.

Before I became an inspector a friend of mine was a suit during the week and a DYIer on the weekends. He wanted to install a 3 way switch and light in his garage and asked if I would come over and explain it to him. After about an hour and several drawings I asked if he'd like me to do it for him and he said no thanks and a few minutes later I asked again and again he said no thanks and wanted to know why I kept asking. I told him that I could have already had it installed in the time that it took me to stand there and try to explain it to him.

In case it didn't sound like it we require permits and inspections no matter who's doing the work.

 

[JohnJ0906]

And I get a real chuckle out of the way some HOs do things.

I know of a house wired by the original owner. In order for power to be on in the detached garage, the second-floor bathroom fan must be turned on.

OK, how long did it take to figure that one out?

 

[480sparky]

OK, how long did it take to figure that one out?

4 hours. Don't ask how much money I put in the swear jar!

 

[JohnJ0906]

4 hours. Don't ask how much money I put in the swear jar!

I would have said a few myself. I mean, who would think to look there? :roll:

If I think an HO has been doing work, I try not to use logic at all. Won't get me anywhere....

 

[thinfool]

Who really does the work?

Who really does the work?

Sometime in the last year, an 83 year (little) old lady signed an affidavit for the inspector, swearing that she had personally wired her new, three story home.
He knows she was lying, but whatcha gonna do?
--Related at our annual IAEI meeting in Lexington.

 

[480sparky]

I would have said a few myself. I mean, who would think to look there? :roll:

If I think an HO has been doing work, I try not to use logic at all. Won't get me anywhere....

OK here's the homeowners logic on this one:

Step 1: Run wires. Just run wires, point to point. Don't think, just do. Insulators are coming first thing next week, drywallers next Thursday.
Step 2: Now the walls are painted, I need to make up all those wires. Now, real electricians have a big secret, but I know what that secret is. You can make any wire do anything you want just by the way you make them up in a box. So all I need to do is figure out how they make up the wires, and I'm home free.
Step 3: Realize the real secret of electricians is proper planning. Now I must accept the fact I must live with a garage door that will only open when someone is bathing upstairs.
Step 4: Sell the house and make it someone else's problem.

 

[brian john]

I'll gurantee for every home owner story you have I can match it with an electrician story.

 

[JohnJ0906]

I'll gurantee for every home owner story you have I can match it with an electrician story.

No bet....