Hot Inspectors

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Re: Hot Inspectors

We as inspectors required to get a lighting outlet that is switched at the top and bottom of a set of stairs?
If one of the 3ways is miss wired and the install does not work correctly, then isn't that a violation??
I could really care less if someone's landscape lighting works as long as there ar no shorts or ground faults. You could check that with no power if you wanted. It's easier and more exciting sometimes when the power is on. ;)
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Bob: maybe in commercial it appears that the inspectors job is just the NEC, but in dwellings the process is much broader and they are inspecting much further out than the NEC. Smokes alone prove my point. Jurisdictional variations are legal in most areas. Most inspectors I met and worked with said they wereserving the public good, not the NEC. Even the ones just idling at the public trough said that they were inspecting for the public good.

It would be interesting to list all the non-NEC mandated electrical rules that exist in various areas. Things like smoke locations, lighting levels, switch locations for stairs, etc.

paul
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

why bother even having inspectors? you cannot enforce the NEC in a dwelling without the power on, what do they do if the house also includes a inground pool, let me guess, nothing? who is checking these houses after the power is turned on? a helper with 6 months experience? or is that the homeowners problem, how do you enforce 110.7 without the power on? and many other sections? that type of inspection is a joke, just have the contractors send the inspectors pictures of the house and save them a trip out of the office.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Here in Massachusetts the service is inspected and connected before the final inspection. I would never do a final inspection without the circuits being energized.However I test every receptacle for polarity and grounding, as well as all gfci and afci protected circuit. Also for the required small appliance branch circuits.

Inspections
are made to be sure that the installation is code compliant and to protect the homeowner. I can not understand how that can be done without energizing the circuits.

romeo
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Ok but your all walking a fine line in requireing power to the building.If i was amish and you forced me to pay for poco servise you just might end up in court.Where in NEC do you find anything requireing power to be applied ? My building could be 100 % to code but never has to have voltage applied.Your requiring us to purchase electric ,illegal as H---
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

jimwalker

we are talking about houses that will be connected to the utility.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Jim, who's requiring the house to have power if it is not wired?

Roger
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Thats what this post is about, I thought it was going to be something better, when I read "HOT INSPECTORS" :eek: In Dallas Tx. its final before city releases the service to the power company.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Originally posted by apauling:
Bob: maybe in commercial it appears that the inspectors job is just the NEC, but in dwellings the process is much broader and they are inspecting much further out than the NEC.
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So Paul, now you know how it works here as well as there? ;)
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

All this leads to one thing if the EC is willing to take a chance and not do a hot check on the residential or commercial building prior to calling in a final inspection then he should not even be in business, Iwire is right the inspector is not there to see if your 3-ways work or not that is up to the EC who should take not only pride in his work but insure that his installation is not going to endanger anyone. As I stated in Dallas TX, no final no power, the GFCIs, AFCIs, etc are the responsibility of the EC to make sure these will operate, not the inspectors, I can not even have the house on temp. power, that will only get me a red tag and POCO will not connect unless there is a green tag on final and a release from the inspector, so how is the inspector going to check the GFIs etc. May be what we need is a semifinal inspection, then power gets turned on an d then a final for the CO. Then the customer can move in. :cool: :cool:

[ January 11, 2006, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: Jhr ]
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

I can't imagine doing a final without power.

Here the PoCo connects power when they get certification that the service is safe to hook up. That happens long before the final, and in some cases before the rough-in. I once did a job on a house where the only thing I had installed was a new meter and panel, and I got an inspector to come out and sign off on it, and the PoCo hooked it up. So the house had a hot panelboard, and no circuits.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Originally posted by bphgravity:
I agree that I am not required to ensure everything works, however I do have to ensure receptacles that are required to be gfci protected indeed are. The same goes for afci requirements and any other "power dependent" code issues.
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Okay, how do you ensure these things without power?

Originally posted by jimwalker:
My building could be 100 % to code but never has to have voltage applied.
Click to expand...
Okay, then show me that the GFCI- and AFCI-protected outlets are indeed so protected, and NEC-compliant.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Bob: you said that the inspector does not check that anything works, that that is the customer rep's job. And I said that that they can and do for dwellings. My read on your jobs is that they are commercial and industrial, where there are often special inspectors, and specified individuals for that job of certifying operation. That is not true for residential, and I doubt that that relationship (as in industrial and comm.) exists all over Mass. for SFD's.

My limited experience of industrial inspection put me in a combo job where I was both a code inspector and quality control. Quality control assumed that everything was workingas there was a final where operations were checked, and usually everyone but the contractor's rep was gone, no electricians to check on the (assumed negligence previously implied by Bob) inspectors role. Everything was checked, just like many residential inspections. Some inspectors check and some :cool:
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Part of my inspection area covers the rual, unincorporated area, around a larger city which has its own inspectors. We require "power" checks , they don't. One of the "city boys" recently completed a job in our area (with some green help). On final, I found 5 GFCI protected outlets that were not, and 1/2 a bedroom on a non AFCI circuit. (He was shocked that we carry generators)
These are things that the homeowner would never catch as they do not know of the requirements.
If you plug something in and it works, 99% of the customers are satisfied.
I'm confident that with some instrumentation, a house could be checked for compliance with AFCI and GFCI, but I know no one who does that.
To me, to certify, to the best of my knowledge, that that an installation meets the Code, I need to check it with power on.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Originally posted by augie47:
He was shocked that we carry generators.
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Bad pun, but that aside, how do you connect the generator to the panel, electrically speaking, and who makes this connection and disconnection?
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Locally, through fourteen counties my company serves, if the customer (electrician) does not have a final, we do not connect permanent service. They may though be using the temporary service to back feed for final inspections.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Larry, sorry for the wording, no pun intended, I saw it but didn't change.
95% of our jobs, the contractor has power back-fed to the panel(or meter socket) from the jon temporary.
If generator is used, its alligator clips to the meter socket by the inspector. Low wattage generators, checking 1 circuit at a time.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Ouch! Permanent utility provided power or no final Inspection. I could not even justify doing the Inspection. And if others are then why even have an Inspector? Lets all just sign letters of intent (contractors) stating yep! I did it right "And go on" Save the Tax payers money! Note, not trying to be difficult here just trying to make a point. Don't You agree?
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

Contrary to my earlier post about the PoCo in Kissimmee, FL, here in Indianapolis, the contractor affixes a "Notice of Completion and Compliance" and the PoCo will connect at any time the contractor desires - rough, trim, final or whenever. They are absolved of any liability and the city seems to be as well, so all are happy. This procedure gets a lot of buildings, both residential and commercial energized long before they probably should be, IMHO.
 
Re: Hot Inspectors

We pass finals every day with out power.It can become a problem when the meter is set on move in day.All out t poles have gfci`s 120 and 240v the bonded neutral in the home causes tyhe gfci to trip.OSHA frowns when bypassed and sometimes we do get caught with pants down on hot checks.We have built several hot check transformers that create thier own neutral so the GFCI holds but there aren`t enough to go around yet :roll:
 
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