Hot Tub

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NYHigh

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Hey guys, I'm hooking up an outdoor Hot Tub and I'm a little confused after reading the code over and over.

The plate says use a 50amp circuit breaker and 50amp rated wires.

Questions:

1) Should I consider this hot tub as a continuous load? If so, is that 50amps already taking continuous load into consideration?

2) I'm going to run from a GFCI breaker to an emergency shut off switch, then to the hot tub. Do I need a service receptacle within 25 feet?

3) Do I need to run pvc in the ground or can I just use direct burial?

4) What about Bonding and Grounding. Do I need to Bond anything on the hot tub or can i just wire the equipment grounding conductor to the grounding terminal on the hot tub and be done with it? If bonding is necessary, what's the best way to do it? Seperate grounding conductor or use the same equipment grounding conductor?

Thanks guys.
 
NYHigh said:
1) Should I consider this hot tub as a continuous load? If so, is that 50amps already taking continuous load into consideration?
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If the plate says this..

The plate says use a 50amp circuit breaker and 50amp rated wires
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Then that is what you use.

2) I'm going to run from a GFCI breaker to an emergency shut off switch, then to the hot tub.
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Is this a hot tub at a dwelling unit?

Emergency shut of switches are not required for dwelling units, a maintenance disconnect is.
 
Just to be clear on your answer to number 1)

- You are saying that a hot tub is considered a continuous load?

- And you are also saying that only if the nameplate says continuous load has already been taken into consideration than you should use the sizing that it specifies?


I've noticed article 680.41 states that "A clearly labeled emergency shutoff or control switch for the purpose of stopping the motor(s) that provide power to the recirculation system and jet system shall be installed at a point readily accessible to the users and not less than (5 ft) away, adjacent to, and within sight of the spa or hot tub".

It doesn't say anything about a dwelling unit?
 
NYHigh said:
4) What about Bonding and Grounding. Do I need to Bond anything on the hot tub or can i just wire the equipment grounding conductor to the grounding terminal on the hot tub and be done with it? If bonding is necessary, what's the best way to do it? Seperate grounding conductor or use the same equipment grounding conductor?

Thanks guys.
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If this is an outdoor tub then you may want to read about equipotential bonding art.680.26
 
NYHigh said:
Just to be clear on your answer to number 1)

- You are saying that a hot tub is considered a continuous load?
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No, I am saying if an appliance / equipment label specifically calls out the overcurrent protective device size that is what you use.


I've noticed article 680.41 states that "A clearly labeled emergency shutoff or control switch for the purpose of stopping the motor(s) that provide power to the recirculation system and jet system shall be installed at a point readily accessible to the users and not less than (5 ft) away, adjacent to, and within sight of the spa or hot tub".

It doesn't say anything about a dwelling unit?
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Read the last sentence of that section.
 
iwire said:
No, I am saying if an appliance / equipment label specifically calls out the overcurrent protective device size that is what you use.




Read the last sentence of that section.
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Oh I see it. But isn't that a little misleading because basically what it is saying is that you don't need an emergency shutoff or control switch for a single-family dwelling. And it also does not redeem itself by saying a maintenance disconnect shall be used otherwise?




Dennis Alwon, I understand your concern about article 680.26 but isn't that about swimming pools? What I'm asking is what should i do for the hot tub as far as grounding.
 
NYHigh said:
Oh I see it. But isn't that a little misleading because basically what it is saying is that you don't need an emergency shutoff or control switch for a single-family dwelling. And it also does not redeem itself by saying a maintenance disconnect shall be used otherwise?
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The maintenance disconnect has to be within site of the motor.

The emergency disconnect when required has to be near the tub.

Many times with commercial installations the motor is not at the tub so there will be the emergency button.




I understand your concern about article 680.26 but isn't that about swimming pools?
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You treat an outdoor hot tub the same as a pool, see 680.40.
 
NYHigh said:
Dennis Alwon, I understand your concern about article 680.26 but isn't that about swimming pools? What I'm asking is what should i do for the hot tub as far as grounding.
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Art. 680 Part IV is for Spas and Hot Tubs

680.42 says to install outdoor tubs according to Parts I and II-- art. 680. 26 is in section II
 
Assuming there is no metal parts around the hot tub within 5 feet and it is just sitting in the middle of the lawn on grass, what exactly needs to happen as far as grounding and/or bonding?

I'm running 2 hots a neutral and a ground through the conduit from the house into the disconnect switch. Out of the disconnect switch the 2 hots, neutral and the ground continue through the pipe to the hot tubs terminals. Now there should be terminals in which i connect all 4 of these wires.

Correct me if I'm wrong but:

-This ground should be insulated

-Do i have to run a seperate grounding conductor for the internal metal parts to be grounded? Bare or insulated if so.


I really appreciate all the help guys in answering all my questions but can someone break it down for me for this last question?
 
Well we really need to establish what year NEC the installation falls under as the rules keep changing each code cycle.
 
If you are under the 2005 then read 680.26 (C) . You probably wll have to read it a few times. I would guess your installation sitting on grass would fall under (C)(3)(b) for the grid.
 
NYhigh
NYS just passed a Ebulletin - which is basically a law on the fly - change to some of the requirements for pool wiring. Spas are affected by some of the changes.
One of the changes for spas is a "spa alarm". This will be for spa covers.
My advice is to contact your local building department and ask them for a copy of the change, or you can go online to the state site and download it.
www.dos.state.ny.us/codes/pools.htm

The bulletin you are looking for was published last month.


P.S.
It seems to me from reading your posts, that you really need to read Parts I, II and IV more thoroughly before you tackle this spa.


P.S. Residential pools (& spas) in NYS are following the Residential Building Code, Chapter 41 and also referencing the 2002 NEC.
 
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This is another good addition ,... lots of pictures too,..for us non lawyer types:) (just click on it and it is yours free!) Thank you Mr. Holt

 
The code book is confusing me on this subject that's why I am asking the question here.

If you were faced with an installation like this, how would you go about grounding and/or bonding personally?(hands on answer)

I've actually never seen anyone make an underground grid for a hot tub. A pool I've seen. Everyone I talk to doesn't do that.
 
NYHigh said:
The code book is confusing me on this subject that's why I am asking the question here.
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Believe me you are not alone, Article 680 is tough and when you learn it they change it.

I have only been giving you answers that I am confident about as I don't do pools and spas.

What code year is your area using? That really makes a difference, and don't overlook Pierre's advice, he has been a contractor and electrical inspector in New York for a long time.
 
iwire said:
Believe me you are not alone, Article 680 is tough and when you learn it they change it.

I have only been giving you answers that I am confident about as I don't do pools and spas.

What code year is your area using? That really makes a difference, and don't overlook Pierre's advice, he has been a contractor and electrical inspector in New York for a long time.
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I understand your point. I will read a little more under this subject. As for the receptacle within 25 feet of the Hot tub for servicing, is that necessary or is that just for heating/a.c. equipment. Thanks again guys, this is a great site!

As for Pierre, thanks for the info, I'm actually not sure what year the code for this installation falls under in this area. You'd think the latest code right? HAHA...But that's the world of NEC.
 
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Are you doing this install as a side job or under the supervision of your employee? I would hope he can help you on this.

Because you have never seen the grid under a hot tub does not mean it should be overlooked. It is still required by the NEC. I don't do them often but the last one I did I built a grid. A PITA IMO.
 
M. D. said:
NYHigh ,..did you click on that link I provided???
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Yes I did. That is a really handy item, but it still does not specify about a grid for a "hot tub/spa", so i'm still a little cloudy about intalling it. I agree that the code says that hot tubs shall be wired as per part 1 and 2 of 680 but I just don't want to go about doing the grid if it is really not necessary in my area.

Hey another question is, would I be crossing boundaries to ask an electrical inspector in the area this question? Do they get bent out of shape about stuff like this? Do you guys ask your electrical inspectors questions?
 
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