Hourly rates

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There are some,(above) doing side work .NO PERMIT,NO LINCESE,NO NOTHING
No Way Bro. don't fly here !!!
 
emahler said:
then go out and do it...stop half stepping...
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Ahh.....If it were only that easy! I stay busy enough to make a little extra money to suplement my income, but definately not enough to pay all my bills and provide health insurance for my family. I'm just not ready to take the risk and give up my steady paycheck and trade it in for the uncertainty of self employment. Some day mabey I will go out on my own, but for now it'll remain industrial service by day, light residential by night.
 
Thanks for the all the opinions on trying to charge the right amount, not trying to steal anyones work just trying to stick together which I think we all should. I'm not trying to cause issues, just looking for any advice on pricing jobs out mostly small ones thanks. I'm just trying to be the guy to not charge to little. Any advice would be greatly appreciated thanks again.
 
EBFD6 said:
Ahh.....If it were only that easy! I stay busy enough to make a little extra money to suplement my income, but definately not enough to pay all my bills and provide health insurance for my family. I'm just not ready to take the risk and give up my steady paycheck and trade it in for the uncertainty of self employment. Some day mabey I will go out on my own, but for now it'll remain industrial service by day, light residential by night.
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So you feel it's ok to put a burden on other area contractors including your boss, in order for you to make additional income at the expense of them loosing work from the area. You don't want to take the risk, but you have feelings about to other EC's in the area that are taking the risk, and your dipping into their pie . and maby making it difficult for them to meet their expenses, Just a thought!
 
satcom said:
So you feel it's ok to put a burden on other area contractors including your boss, in order for you to make additional income at the expense of them loosing work from the area. You don't want to take the risk, but you have feelings about to other EC's in the area that are taking the risk, and your dipping into their pie . and maby making it difficult for them to meet their expenses, Just a thought!
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You gotta do what you gotta do to pay the bills! The work I do on the side is almost entirely word of mouth friend of a friend needs some electrical work done, small jobs that no one else wants to begin with! I can't tell you how many times I hear "I called six electricians and you're the only one that called me back" . If the other EC's in the area are hurting for work, they sure have a funney way of showing it. As far as putting a burden on my boss, the company I work for is strictley comm./Industrial and does no residential at all. In fact my boss will actually tell people who call about residential work, that our company does not do that kind of work, but he can ask the guys and see if anyone wants some sidework.
 
EBFD6 said:
You gotta do what you gotta do to pay the bills! The work I do on the side is almost entirely word of mouth friend of a friend needs some electrical work done, small jobs that no one else wants to begin with! I can't tell you how many times I hear "I called six electricians and you're the only one that called me back" . If the other EC's in the area are hurting for work, they sure have a funney way of showing it. As far as putting a burden on my boss, the company I work for is strictley comm./Industrial and does no residential at all. In fact my boss will actually tell people who call about residential work, that our company does not do that kind of work, but he can ask the guys and see if anyone wants some sidework.
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Speaking for myself, I worked for flooring contractor on the side, would not consider taking work from the EC's that were depending on it for a living, just me, when people tell you they can't get anyone, it usually meand the ones they called were too high in their mind, not they din't want the work, some homeowners will seak out the part time guys looking for cheap labor, that they din't call back story, is so old it's all worn out. Just throwing some thoughts up there, there is nothing illegal with what your doing, just something i would never thing of doing. but that is my problem, I guess as i grew up, i seen how many of the small guys had to fight to survive in business, just never considered taking any of their work, I you charge the same or near the same rates they charce your not likely to hurt them, it's the guys that work at low wages that hurt the area markets.
 
ddubbs103 said:
Everything is legal, Lic, Ins, Permits etc, I'm not a hack and take pride in my work.
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Myself i would strongly suggest buying into a flat rate program that way you wont be under cutting anyone but t he thing is would you be willing to spend about 3000.00 for it.you should make that back on top of what you would charge now in about 8 jobs small jobs
 
I have no problem with guys doing side work unless they are members of a certain "organization" not to be named here :wink: . That is how we all started out. All that I want to see is that everyone charges what we are worth. We, most of us anyway, have certainly earned it.

Sure if you are doing a service change for you neighbor and you want them to get the materials and throw you a case of beer thats fine. Other than thatcharge the full rate.

If everyone else charges say 2K for a 200 amp upgrade why would you charge $1200.00? Just because it's side work and you already got your weekly paycheck? Even if that is the case wouldn't you want to get that extra $800.00?? I would.
 
electricmanscott said:
All that I want to see is that everyone charges what we are worth.
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How is our "worth" determined? Is it the same for all of us?

Sometimes in the past I've asked questions like this to start an arguement. I don't want that. I am curious as to what everyone things determines out "worth". Personally, I believe the market makes that determination. (Last I checked, we do still live in a free-market society).
 
hardworkingstiff said:
How is our "worth" determined? Is it the same for all of us?

Sometimes in the past I've asked questions like this to start an arguement. I don't want that. I am curious as to what everyone things determines out "worth". Personally, I believe the market makes that determination. (Last I checked, we do still live in a free-market society).
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I don't know what every individual is worth but as a whole our trade, licensed, insured, taxpaying, etc....Is worth a whole lot more than $37.00 an hour billed to the customer. That is just an insult.
 
electricmanscott said:
I don't know what every individual is worth but as a whole our trade, licensed, insured, taxpaying, etc....Is worth a whole lot more than $37.00 an hour billed to the customer. That is just an insult.
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I agree, $37 is way too low. Personally, I value my skills at $70/hour. It seems a lot of posters believe I'm too cheap and insulting our trade. The market in eastern NC seems to think I'm borderline high (which is where I like to be, on the high side).
 
I think in 08, a lot of us are going to get the opportunity to make the decision on how low we are willing to go to be able to generate income. I understand all the posters who write about marketing, selling up, etc.

Sometimes the market just gets TOUGH. The residential builders are going through that in a lot of areas in the country. Units dropping 10-40%. Is their value (as builders) that much less?
 
the easiest way to find out what you need to charge is to add it up...simple as that...

if you are a moonlighter, add it up as if you were a real contractor...

figure out all your expenses....from business insurance to health insurance...from truck payments to advertising...do a search here, Aline posted a list of OH items...not all will apply, but most will...

when you add these items up, be forward looking with them.

ie.- you currently don't have health insurance, but would like to afford it, figure the cost in...or you have a 15 yr old van, but would like a new one, figure the cost in...you currently live on $30k a year, but would like to earn $100k, figure it in...

when you figure in all the actual costs of operating your business, i'll bet that you determine that your break even price (without any profit) is around $80-90/hr (but that's if you bill 40 hrs a week)

then you add your desired profit (this is not your salary, this is money for the company to grow and to withstand down cycles) and figure out about how many hours you will actually bill out...

for most 1-2 man small shops, this number will range from 4-8 hrs a day, depending on how honest you are.

for larger shops where the owner is not in the field equation, this number will range from 4-5 hrs for resi service to 6-7 hrs for installations...

for moonlighters, price based on 5-6 hrs a day, that will give you an hourly rate to work with...you'll never hit your target numbers, but I bet you won't screw the market either.

or you can just ask around and hope that the person telling you knows what they are talking about....
 
Maybe my rate is low, based on what I read here, but there is another big factor no-one has mentioned: materials mark-up.

I try to use my materials mark-up as a way to generate some significant money for my business. I have always marked up the basics i.e. pipe, wire, boxes, wiring devices, breakers @ 90%; service equipment 35%-50%; and light fixtures, controls, special-order stuff, 20%.

I have learned that locally the electricians I know who are willing to talk about money, don't do that. They have much smaller mark-ups, one as low as 15% across the board.

My hourly rate is apparantly somewhat low, but my mark-up maybe high.

What do you other guys do?
 
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edlee said:
Maybe my rate is low, based on what I read here, but there is another big factor no-one has mentioned: materials mark-up.

I try to use my materials mark-up as a way to generate some significant money for my business. I have always marked up the basics i.e. pipe, wire, boxes, wiring devices, breakers @ 90%; service equipment 35%-50%; and light fixtures, controls, special-order stuff, 20%.

I have learned that locally the electricians I know who are willing to talk about money, don't do that. They have much smaller mark-ups, one as low as 15% across the board.

My hourly rate is apparantly somewhat low, but my mark-up maybe high.

What do you other guys do?
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So what happens when you do a job that has little or no materials? Do you lose money on that job because you were counting on material markup for your profit?

I try to cover as much of my expenses as possible in my hourly rate and have profit built into my hourly rate as well. That way if there is little or no material involved in the job I still cover my expenses and make a profit. Some customer's already have the materials.

I still markup my materials but try not to rely on it to cover expenses. I prefer material markup to be mostly extra profit. High markup on materials is why customer's start wanting to buy there own materials.
 
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aline said:
So what happens when you do a job that has little or no materials? Do you lose money on that job because you were counting on material markup for your profit?

I try to cover as much of my expenses as possible in my hourly rate and have profit built into my hourly rate as well. That way if there is little or no material involved in the job I still cover my expenses and make a profit. Some customer's already have the materials.

I still markup my materials but try not to rely on it to cover expenses. I prefer material markup to be mostly extra profit.
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That's the same way I look at it. Materials are for profit and my overhead is covered in my labor. I can do that because I don't have much overhead as a 1-man show (sometimes 2). When I used to manage a larger group, then we had to recover overhead in the materials (quite a bit of overhead there).
 
hardworkingstiff said:
That's the same way I look at it. Materials are for profit and my overhead is covered in my labor. I can do that because I don't have much overhead as a 1-man show (sometimes 2). When I used to manage a larger group, then we had to recover overhead in the materials (quite a bit of overhead there).
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i would bet that your OH/man hour is close to that of a 10 man shop...especially if you pay your administrative salary out of OH and not out of profit...
 
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