How are apprentices treated in your area?

[megloff11x]

I'd posted along this line on the question of state ratings, and would like to ask it as a separate question.

How are apprentices treated where you are?

I grew up in the F-rated "Peoples Republic" of New York. My father learned the electrical trade in the Navy and went through the journeyman process as a Union member employed by a major company after the War. He never spoke of having any troubles getting hours, training, etc.

I had several friends who tried the electrician career working for various contractors. They gave up on it. They were poorly paid - one quit and went to work stocking grocery shelves and made more per hour and had all the hours he wanted. They worked infrequently when they were doing electrical apprenticing. There was much nepotism and they didn't have "the right last name." A couple found work as electrical maintenance men at smaller businesses and did just fine, but never got licensed because those places and their jobs weren't approved for the experience. One got an associates degree and uses that instead of a journeyman license.

I could also regale all with tales of underworld payoffs, crooked inspector payoffs, crooked politicians, unscupulous "builders" who stiffed their contractors, etc., but we all know how NY doesn't work.

While a new guy can't expect to make what an experienced guy does, he should be able to put food on the table while learning the ropes. This is a long process. I think you're losing many potentially good folks to this issue.

How well are apprentices treated where you are?

Matt - escaped from NY

 

[jeff43222]

I'm guessing things are a little better here. We have an oversupply of licensed journeymen, and they only became licensed journeymen after four years of apprenticing. If being an apprentice was so terrible, I doubt they would have stuck with it.

I've heard that union apprentices start out at half of what a journeyman makes. Journeyman scale here is somewhere over $30/hour plus bennies, so figure an apprentice making $15/hour comes to roughly $30k/year. Not huge money, but you can live on it.

I don't know what non-union apprentices make, nor am I expressing an opinion as to which way is better (union vs. non-union).

 

[barbeer]

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=82989&highlight=apprenticeship

Check out this thread! Many options. ABC's program defines what the pay scale should be from the states avg. j-man pay.

Any trade apprenticeship isn't easy, if it were everyone would do it, we have all been treated like crap at some point in our careers. Sometimes unions are not the best way to go, especially locally to me!

 

[brian john]

If they can afford the housing send all apprentices here. If they have a good attitude, show up, willing to work (that includes overtime), CLEAN DRIVING RECORD (NO DUI's) they will make a good living.

We give our apprentices holidays (after a year and are good workers),(vacations on an indivudal basis) union scale or above, cell phones, bonus at Christmas (plus ham or turkey). Make getting to work easy (usually ride with mechanic). Have helped them with car issues (allowed them to use spare van while their car is being repaired) and family leave. One apprentice got hurt on his own time we paid him a month salary and held his job for 8 months while hi recoup'd.

Treat you people right and they will treat you right.

 

[rcarroll]

IMO an apprentice needs to do a lot of the grunt work. Haul materials from the truck to the site, clean up, learn materials & the like. You know, build character. The best apprentice I ever had was in a ditch chipping at a grade beam to expose all my pipe so we could extend them to gas tanks & dispensers. 6 years later, he was a master electrician with his own shop. I forgot to add that his 1st 2 days on the job was in that ditch. He was tatally green.

 

[mike12347]

My second day the j-men had me pounding a ground rod in with a 16oz hammer, they only let me go for about 10mins LOL.:grin: I don't think I did anything but grunt work for about 6 months. Then I really started learning. Now as an EC I think those were good things. As Ron said it builds character and also it shows who really wants to be there. As for pay, it was about half the j-mens rate with raises based on performance. IMO if you want to work and want learn you will succeed in this industry.

 

[barbeer]

My first day in the trade, the project manager said " you need to walk like you got some place to be boy! " Then he told me to take this 40# demo hammer and trench a poured wall to fit this 3/4 emt in flush! Didn't get much better for a while, most of us like the abuse:grin:

 

[petersonra]

Part of the deal with being an apprentice is learning to accept that occasionally the job has unpleasant aspects.

The beatings will continue until morale improves!

 

[tallgirl]

Part of the deal with being an apprentice is learning to accept that occasionally the job has unpleasant aspects.

It was 24F here this morning. In the summer it will be 100F. Isn't that unpleasant enough?!?

This past weekend there was a 1000' roll of Romex sitting on the floor with no dolly. Dealing with that stupid thing was also unpleasant. Why do y'all have to make it worse with stupid games?!?

 

[charlie k.]

I was treated badly as an apprentice. It was with a small open shop. After completing my apprenticeship I joined the IBEW and found they treated them the same way. If my apprentice shows up on time everyday and is willing to work he gets treated well. The apprentice will get his Journeymans card at graduation and will go on to run work perhaps. The bottom line is I treat them with the respect they deserve.

Charlie

 

[iwire]

Why do y'all have to make it worse with stupid games?!?

'cause I can......if they deserve it.

When they ask a question like.....

'How come I have to dig, I make the least?'

....they set themselves for it.

As an apprentice I was fired and left in Boston 30 or so miles from home, stuff happens.

Theres no crying in construction.

 

[ramsy]

As an apprentice I was fired and left in Boston 30 or so miles from home

Who says the games stop with apprentices? I would have left you in the nearest creek, and taken away the paddle.

 

[360Youth]

My favorite was the day one of our helpers (we don't have apprentices and journeyman in east coast NC) was sent to find the fallopian tubes. I think it was about 30 min before he caught on something was up. I took it when I received a work study with Balt. Gas and Elect. while in high school. At times I was not allowed to look the boss in the eye on payday. :grin: They treated me great, but kept me humble.

Now my boss and I fight over who gets to be the helper.

 

[Dave85]

In NJ I can only find smaller businesses around my area and have only gotten $8 an hour with little work

To top it off, most guys wont sign the paperwork for my apprenticeship....

I'm starting to think that electrical is not my career...
I like hands on type work...maybe should try some appliance repair...

 

[iwire]

I would have left you in the nearest creek, and taken away the paddle.

And still I would do just fine...:grin:

 

[allenwayne]

Guess we all have some stories about putting a helper on the send for a non existent item.Wire stretchers,flour. tube benders, and sky hooks have been my biggest ones anyone else have some betterI know it was mean but it was a great laugh at the time.When I started my j man had me looking for a left handed screw driver until I realized what he was doing.I was young dumb and full of .................................

 

[ramsy]

I'm starting to think that electrical is not my career...

Maybe you don't have to quit your day job to find a more rewarding break into this trade.

I believe your best experience will start with small contractor's who can take someone part-time underwing. The challenges you must overcome includes state requirements, and the contractor's adversity to workers comp., payroll deductions, taxes, and unumployment insurance costs.

If all you want is to legally try a few weekends with some of the smaller contractors, I wouldn't sweat the apprenticeship BS until the financial benefit at the end of your tunnel is clearly superior to your day job, worth the cost of funding your own way thru apprenticeship hours, JW testing, etc..

Some ideas:
1) I don't recommend signing up with any ABC's or JATC's before you've tried it and decided you like it, and believe the reward at the end of the tunnel well worth it.
2) Find out if weekend warriors can legally keep some employee expenses under the radar, based on hours.
3) Find out if legally-licensed business operators (not licensed contractors) are exempted from some of these employment hassles, what the requirements are, and what kind of contract would you need to get signed.
4) Find a few help-wanted ads or yellow page ads, for the contractor of your choice, and see what they would expect of you for a few weekends.

 

[tallgirl]

Guess we all have some stories about putting a helper on the send for a non existent item.Wire stretchers,flour. tube benders, and sky hooks have been my biggest ones anyone else have some betterI know it was mean but it was a great laugh at the time.When I started my j man had me looking for a left handed screw driver until I realized what he was doing.I was young dumb and full of .................................

Last things first -- there are left handed screw drivers, and the fact that you couldn't find one clearly proves that you're right handed I'm still looking for a pair of left handed Kleins so when I twist wires for wire nuts the wires get twisted the correct direction. The right handed Kleins I use twist the wire the wrong way if I'm not careful.

I think there is some value in having n00bs of all sorts do menial tasks because many of those tasks are things that get done OVER and OVER and OVER and you might as well share the misery. But it seems like a waste of y'alls' bosses' money to play hazing pranks on new employees.

 

[roger]

I'm still looking for a pair of left handed Kleins so when I twist wires for wire nuts the wires get twisted the correct direction. The right handed Kleins I use twist the wire the wrong way if I'm not careful.

Julie, forget about it, most "wire nut" type connectors don't require pretwisting.

Now, for those who are going to say "I've always done it", thats fine, I have too, but in most cases it is unecessary if the connector is installed correctly.

Roger

 

[tallgirl]

Julie, forget about it, most "wire nut" type connectors don't require pretwisting.

Now, for those who are going to say "I've always done it", thats fine, I have too, but in most cases it is unecessary if the connector is installed correctly.

I'm a slow learner because I've never managed to install one properly without twisting the wires first

So ... can you tell me where I can buy a pair of left handed Kleins? I've got left handed scissors, you'd think I could find me some left handed Kleins, dikes, strippers, needle nose and everything else.

I have no future as an electrician. I'm going to go out in the back yard and eat worms ...