How are apprentices treated in your area?

[cloudymacleod]

well, i seen some idiots lock up thier apprentices in the gang box, if they dont listen or work harder enough for a period of the day. thats what u call money well spent, a $10 apprentice locked up in a gang box.

 

[George Stolz]

Jaylectricity, you have compelled me to step in and defend my friend. I think you have unsuccessfully attempted to take a wholesome image of success built on perspiration, and distort it into a fellow picking on a subordinate out of ego or malice.

I defy you to look at Ron's entire post record and find one instance of ego overriding judgement. I have found this guy to be one of the most humble (yet knowledgeable) inspectors I have met.

IMO, an apprentice is the least expensive employee on the job. If there is something requiring very little direction or training to be done, then it falls in the lap of the apprentice due to economics alone. I have dug holes as an apprentice, and continue to do so with a card in my pocket.

If I become a foreman and dig holes while an apprentice watches me, out of some sort of misguided pity for the apprentice, then shame on me. I'm wasting the company's money, pure and simple.

Labor stresses a person. If the stress sends them away, then training did not go wasted on someone not worth the profession. If the stress doesn't send them away, then they have earned their training, and I will fall all over myself to overload them with it.

 

[jaylectricity]

Before this gets out of control, I didn't mean to pick on anybody, even if I said things that were accusational. I didn't really mean it like that. I guess I was using one of MY friend's true experiences recently and was wanting to voice the opinion that we all SHOULD treat our apprentices well.
I personally was treated very well by my old boss. Him and I both spent plenty of time in crawl spaces and attics. So lest you think I was complaining or whining about my own experiences I was not.
It never hurts to put things out there, and I've always stood up for the little guy. I'm sorry if I offended.

Jay

 

[George Stolz]

Sorry if I misunderstood.

On the same note, I'm probably a touch oversensitive because I'm working for a bit of a cranky feller (sweetest term that comes to mind) at the moment, too.

I'll shovel all day for a good foreman, the types who beat ya down to feel better about themselves are about my biggest pet peeve. Sorry if some issues I'm having came back to bite you.

I'm sorry if I offended.

Jay, welcome to the forum.

 

[Mr. Timothy Curtis]

Apprentices are a useful tool in the trade, and should be treated as such.
If one is willing to learn ill teach, if its just a job to one, i dont. there are always sh!t jobs to do, on any job, show your app. how and hopfully he can come to understand the pecking order.

Shoving one in a gang box is out of line, your wasting company money.
We work to live, not the other way.

Thanx TC

 

[brian john]

At 54 (post heart attack) with 20 employees and better things to do, if it helps a job progress, I hope in a dig, lift, or what ever and usually outwork work the apprentices. I think it helps their moral if they realize that everyone can do it, has done it and still does it (what ever it is). And for the owner to step in and not complain, but just do it seems to, keep the crying to a minimum.

Though I do have one that complains about everything, a good worker, always on time stays late, works hard, but moans and groans all the time.



Plus it helps me keep my perspective on what's going on. Not wantnig some unrealistic amount of work in a set period.

 

[HKYPLR]

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I have not seen an apprentice (NYC) in years. I didn't think they stiil made them.

 

[Shockedby277v]

I have not seen an apprentice (NYC) in years. I didn't think they stiil made them.

Check the gang box.

 

[Dominator]

4th year apprentice in vermont (ibew) been treated fairly decent...i think it depends on the apprentice's work ethic

 

[brian john]

If I become a foreman and dig holes while an apprentice watches me, out of some sort of misguided pity for the apprentice, then shame on me. I'm wasting the company's money, pure and simple.

George:

There are times when I hop in a ditch and show I can work as hard as any of them, or as stated in another post move as many batteries as the next guy. I think (maybe incorrectly) it does the men good to see can do any job, even though they are the primary digger, others are there to back them up. A Little Moral Builder, not wasted money IMO.

 

[zbang]

I think it helps their moral if they realize that everyone can do it, has done it and still does it (what ever it is).

One of the best people I've ever worked for said that he'd never ask someone to do something he wouldn't do himself. And he often did pitch in wherever it was needed when he wasn't busy with foreman or project manager-type duties.

 

[George Stolz]

Brian, good point.

But is your motivation pity, or getting the apprentice to dig faster?

 

[brian john]

Actually to show them I can get down and dirty with all of them, show them they are not the poor guy that's has to dig, my motivation is motivation. Pity I don't need, happy employees are always a bennie.

About 15%-20% + or - (not exact figures just a a guess) of my work is for electrical contractors, ask any of them and they'll tell you, their only problem with me is I spoil my apprentices. Which hurts them in the long run in their opinion.

 

[tallgirl]

Brian, good point.

But is your motivation pity, or getting the apprentice to dig faster?

I do the same sort of thing with people who report to me, and for the same reason as Brian -- employees who know their seniors can, do, and have done what they are being asked to do are happier employees.

Also, employees (and people in general) will rise to any challenge put before them. If the greatest challenge an apprentice has is climbing into a ditch and digging, that's about as good as they'll get.

But if you give someone a task they've never done before -- small enough that you can go behind them and clean things up when they mess up -- before you know it, they'll be able to handle it alone. Then you'll be able to focus more of your energy on the more technically difficult tasks and your employee will be happier because you're trusting them with something other than holding a shovel and fetching your supplies.

 

[hockeyoligist2]

One of the best people I've ever worked for said that he'd never ask someone to do something he wouldn't do himself. And he often did pitch in wherever it was needed when he wasn't busy with foreman or project manager-type duties.

I have a good one for that. Last week my boss called (I'm industrial) and said I needed to get back to our shop as quick as possible and check the circuit for our band-saw. I was in line to order lunch at the time, 23 miles away. So, I got out of line, went back to the shop. Checked the breaker, it was tripped, from a grinder that is on the same circuit. We ordered a replacement for it a week earlier, and someone plugged it back in. I cut the plug off so no-one could plug it back in.

So, I went by the break room, to get a coke, the boss was sitting there, eating lunch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh well, so much for "never ask someone to do something he wouldn't do himself!"

 

[megloff11x]

I have a good one for that. Last week my boss called (I'm industrial) and said I needed to get back to our shop as quick as possible and check the circuit for our band-saw. I was in line to order lunch at the time, 23 miles away. So, I got out of line, went back to the shop. Checked the breaker, it was tripped, from a grinder that is on the same circuit. We ordered a replacement for it a week earlier, and someone plugged it back in. I cut the plug off so no-one could plug it back in.

So, I went by the break room, to get a coke, the boss was sitting there, eating lunch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh well, so much for "never ask someone to do something he wouldn't do himself!"

On a Friday at 5PM we were told that an important customer had a machine down and it had been down for some time. Me and one other person were put on a last second plane out the next morning at 6AM (red eye). Despite $2000 a ticket we had coach seats. After 5 connections to get us across the country, we arrived at 2AM the next day including a 2hr drive from the airport to the town with the factory. We called and despite allegedly having three shifts of our guys at the site, we got no answer. We arrived at the factory at 5AM and found none of our guys there. At 5:30 one of the factory guys comes in and gets us in so we can start working on it. None of our guys showed up until after 9, and we never saw our site liaison manager. Since we were there, none of our "local" guys bothered to stick around to learn anything. They'd hosed the machine up pretty good and it took a few days to fix everything.

Matt

 

[tshea]

I have to agree about attitude and work ethic. You give me your best plus, and I'll take care of you. If you are a slacker at a job and don't want a career, start looking elsewhere.
As for menial work--have to agree with others--that's the newbies job. I don't want to see a j-man running the trencher while the apprentice is standing watching. Wasting money!
When I assign tasks I expect the apprentice and the j-man to do the job to the best of their abilities. I have found over the years that their best does not even come close to my worst, and other times they can outperform me! Each sparky has his own skill set and as boss it's my job to know their abilities and exploit/ capitalize on them.

 

[Fulthrotl]

apprentice treatment......

apprentice treatment......

"How are apprentices treated where you are?"

it varies widely, from one area to the next... mostly depending on
who your foreman or journeyman is. i've been treated very well, and
horribly. some days you are the bug, and somedays the windshield.

"My father learned the electrical trade in the Navy and went through the journeyman process as a Union member employed by a major company after the War. He never spoke of having any troubles getting hours, training, etc."

that's cause he probably didn't have any troubles... that was during
the heyday of the unions..... dorothy, we aren't in kansas anymore....
it's a different world today....

"I had several friends who tried the electrician career working for various contractors. They gave up on it. They were poorly paid - one quit and went to work stocking grocery shelves and made more per hour and had all the hours he wanted. They worked infrequently when they were doing electrical apprenticing. There was much nepotism and they didn't have "the right last name."

i went thru my apprenticeship on the left coast in the '70's... the
electrician's union at that time was the last great white hope...
that is not the case anymore.... most west coast electrician's in
the LA area are other than WASP. race or background isn't an issue
anymore.

"I could also regale all with tales of underworld payoffs, crooked inspector payoffs, crooked politicians, unscupulous "builders" who stiffed their contractors, etc., but we all know how NY doesn't work."

'eh, dude, it's local 3.... you expected something diffr'nt maybe?
wassamatta you? it's not personal, just buisness.

"While a new guy can't expect to make what an experienced guy does, he should be able to put food on the table while learning the ropes. This is a long process. I think you're losing many potentially good folks to this issue."

one of the biggest problems with making good folks into electricians, is
the issue of parentage... their parents were usually married.... to each
other, even.... (just kidding)

i've been an electrician 30 years.

when i started, it was a 4 year apprenticeship, starting at 50% of JW rate.
now, it's a 5 year apprenticeship, starting at 35% of JW rate. this is
'cause the unions aren't what they used to be.

i have a pension thru the electrician's union... it's vested.
i hope i never need to draw it. if i keep doing what i'm doing,
i never will.

at this point, i am self employed. i work alone. i am licensed, bonded,
carry a $2m liablilty policy, and have exchanged one boss, who i have
to please, for a dozen bosses, who i have to please.

it's not an issue if the work situation in the hall is good or bad.
i've exchanged that problem for the one of not having the privledge
of saying "no" to a customer, becuase the next time they need a
sparky, they will return to the last one who said "yes". if that isn't
you, you don't work for them anymore. it's as simple as that.

tomorrow, at 3:30 am, i'll get up, and drive 125 miles, to be at work
at 6 am, pulling 4 runs totalling 900' of 500 mcm to hook up four 150 hp
screw type air compressors. the wire will be there at 7 am, and i'll
stay until it's done, then drive back thru LA traffic. then i'll wait about
a month to get paid.

i've learned how to pull 500's by myself, without making it look like
a monkey having sex with a football. it'll be a long day, however.

is it worth it, doing the apprenticeship thing? profit on the wire, and
my labor will be above $6,500 net for tomorrow. you decide.

if, knowing what i know now, i had to make a decison on how to
do this deal, here is what i'd do:

whatever it took to become an apprentice in IBEW Local 6, SF, CA.
i'd do it. it is the highest paid local in the IBEW, with the best pension.
and the food in SF is to die for....

here is the link:
http://www.ibew6.org/train/apprenticeship.html

if that didn't work, i'd try for the LADWP apprenticeship thru IBEW
Local 18. it's a three year program, they pay you to spend a third
of the time in school. at the end of that time, you are an electrical
mechanic, with a civil service commission. they own you, or you own
them, i'm not sure which.

after 30 years with them, you can retire at 100% pay and benefits,
with cost of living updates.... then you can take a two week
vacation, and come back as an exempt employee, and double dip.
i've worked with guys who have done that, and are grossing over
$200,000 a year.

or, pull a contractor's license, and set the alarm for 3:30am.
you pick.


randy

 

[WDeanN]

I learned the electrical trade in the Navy, then went to the union apprenticeship. I was 3 years into it before they told be I could have gotten credit for my Navy experience. This was in Louisiana. I didn?t have the right name (it doesn?t end in ?eaux) but nearly aced the entrance exam. I spent the first two years working part time delivering pizzas. Work was so slow at my first shop, the boss called me one Thursday morning, to ask me to come in, after telling me on Wednesday not to bother coming in till next Monday. I told him I had been out the night before (it was Whisky Wednesday) and he?d have to call someone else. At another shop, I didn?t even need to bring my tools to work; they kept a shovel for me there. I went through just about every union shop in that town.

By my forth year, I was running a 2nd year apprentice. By my fifth year, I was running a service truck and an apprentice. I ended up being state apprentice of the year.

Work through it. Do what it takes, and it will be worth it.

 

[blueheels2]

Has anyone seen the black phasing tape? It's different than electrical tape.