How long did it take you to really get the business up and running?

[growler]

How do you know if they are doing side work though? I don't know how short of putting GPS on the trucks so that at least someone will not be using my truck to do side work. But that is very expensive, not to mention time consuming, tracking the trucks, etc. e/m.

If your employees are useing your trucks to do side work then sooner or later a customer will call your shop and complain about the work then you will notice that your company didn't even do that job.

Another indication of side work is when people are buying items on your account at the supply house and paying cash ( if you are getting any discount ). Now with Home Depot they may not bother even useng the supply house, about the same price .

If your guys never want to work any overtime they are either lazy, being paid to much or doing side work.:grin: The last comment was just for fun.:grin:

 

[480sparky]

If your employees are useing your trucks to do side work then sooner or later a customer will call your shop and complain about the work then you will notice that your company didn't even do that job.

I've seen this happen. One place I used to work for got a phone call from a guy wanting to know when we were going to finish his basement. THe poor secretary spent hours trying to find out who this guy was, why he was calling us, and had no clue.

Turned out, one of the guys not only used the company van to go to the (side) job (75 one-way miles away, no less!), but was using company material!

 

[Energy-Miser]

If your employees are useing your trucks to do side work then sooner or later a customer will call your shop and complain about the work then you will notice that your company didn't even do that job.

Another indication of side work is when people are buying items on your account at the supply house and paying cash ( if you are getting any discount ). Now with Home Depot they may not bother even useng the supply house, about the same price .

If your guys never want to work any overtime they are either lazy, being paid to much or doing side work.:grin: The last comment was just for fun.:grin:

I like the last comment, because I can eliminate lazy and overpaid, leaving me with well, the moonlighter!! e/m

 

[220/221]

How do you know if they are doing side work though? I don't know how short of putting GPS on the trucks so that at least someone will not be using my truck to do side work. But that is very expensive, not to mention time consuming, tracking the trucks, etc

Heh heh...if they are using MY stuff I'll kick their ass, physically AND legally.

I keep all my trucks (5) at the shop and they DO have GPS tracking.

 

[tyha]

i was laid off from my last job as a project manager just before the company nose dived. I knew for years before that, that I could run my own shop better than the people I had worked for in the past. So with about ten grand in the bank i joined one of those bid lead services (commercial only) and by the trime I landed my first project , 3 months later, I was flat broke from living expenses. But I had my brother and my best friend, both of whom I had gotten in the trade and trained myself for years. They agreed to work for spending money until I got my first check. I paid their important bills with my credit card. It was extremly ruff the first year and into the second but i learned what to do and what not to do. What type of jobs are worth going after and which ones aren't. Now years later neither my brother or friend are with me but i have 14 other great guys and am headed in the right direction. As far as getting more work when I can see a slow down comming I go straight to the offices of the generals in the area that do our type of work and explain how we can have a mutually beneficial relationship. I have never cut any ECs throat and never will. I have done a few jobs around break even to stay busy and have lost money on stupid mistakes but i learned that thats part of what we do and the longer you survive the better prepared you are to deal with it. Also, it is very important that you see slowdowns months ahead with ample time to combat them.

 

[Rewire]

I had a hard azz old boss that looked just like Ross Perot. He told me "If you talk about how much you get paid, I'll fire you".

That day I left my paycheck on the truck seat where the guy who had been with him for a few years could see it. I think he made about 3 bucks an hour less thatn me.

It was kind of a jerk move but if the boss would have talked with me instead of threating me I would have respected his wishes.





A) I don't think there IS a problem. I could use a bit more work, especially high dollar easy work, but I have never suffered from a lack of work.

B) I don't think I am entitled to ANY work. If someone took one of my best clients away I would be pissed but the reality is, this is a free market and competition exists.

I don't like paying my competition and that is exactly what you are doing when you have employees doing side work,most side work comes from your current customers who now are no longer your customers.I look at it like this my money paid for the advertising the customer saw ,my money paid for the phone the customer called,my money paid for the truck that carried you to the customer so if that customer wants you to come back as a side job you say no or hit the bricks.

 

[bkludecke]

How do you know if they are doing side work though? I don't know how short of putting GPS on the trucks so that at least someone will not be using my truck to do side work. But that is very expensive, not to mention time consuming, tracking the trucks, etc. e/m.

I operate in a small isolated area. Gossip is the usually the downfall of anyone who cheats.

Many years ago I got a call from a HO who had a problem with a circuit in a room addition on a house we had wired. I didn't remember a room add'n but I went out anyway. I asked the HO who wired the add'n & he said it was the same guys (my employees) who wired the house. I told him to call them for the troubleshooting. That was strike one for them. Strike two was a new home which I had also bid. There was no need for a strike three.

I agree that I can't know everything that goes on on the weekends. So when I do catch soneone moonlighting I figure it's just one of many.

BTW I don't care if they moonlight in other trades or deliver pizza or pracice law on their own time. If they do electrical work for me then they are expected to be loyal.

Now here's the hard part. Right now we are slow and not always getting our 40 in. I have a hard time telling a guy to go home early and then saying he can't do a side job. We deal with those on a case by case basis.

 

[220/221]

most side work comes from your current customers who now are no longer your customers.

I don't think you can substantiate that claim.

I did side work all my life and never took any clients away from my employer.

My deal with my employers covered the time he needed me 8 hours a day, five days a week. When I was off the clock I felt free to live my life however I saw fit.

I still remember my first electrical side job (other that troubleshooting) circa 1973.

I had about 3 months experience roping houses and gave a quote thru a landscaper I knew for some back yard lighting. About 200' of rigid underground with some bell boxes, par holders and a few pagoda lights. I never bent a stick of pipe in my life but I had dug plenty of trenches and knew basic circuitry. I think I got about $400 and spent $150 on materials (circa 1974). It was a one day job and I was gonna be rich!!

I specifically remember looking at the relatively small pile of materials thinking "I am going to turn this stuff into some CASH!!


Ahhhh.....memory lane.

 

[Rewire]

I don't think you can substantiate that claim.

I did side work all my life and never took any clients away from my employer.

My deal with my employers covered the time he needed me 8 hours a day, five days a week. When I was off the clock I felt free to live my life however I saw fit.

I still remember my first electrical side job (other that troubleshooting) circa 1973.

I had about 3 months experience roping houses and gave a quote thru a landscaper I knew for some back yard lighting. About 200' of rigid underground with some bell boxes, par holders and a few pagoda lights. I never bent a stick of pipe in my life but I had dug plenty of trenches and knew basic circuitry. I think I got about $400 and spent $150 on materials (circa 1974). It was a one day job and I was gonna be rich!!

I specifically remember looking at the relatively small pile of materials thinking "I am going to turn this stuff into some CASH!!


Ahhhh.....memory lane.

Most guys if being honest will admit they aquire most side work through relationships established buy their employer and most will admit contact was made while on the clock. Also most side work is preformed at greatly reduced prices. If you choose to bite the hand that feeds you you have the right as for taking jobs from your employer side work puts you in direct compitition with them but with much less overhead so the idea that jobs were not lost to your employer is false as for it being after hours if what you do after hours affects my business then it is my business .

 

[480sparky]

Most guys if being honest will admit they aquire most side work through relationships established buy their employer and most will admit contact was made while on the clock. Also most side work is preformed at greatly reduced prices. If you choose to bite the hand that feeds you you have the right as for taking jobs from your employer side work puts you in direct compitition with them but with much less overhead so the idea that jobs were not lost to your employer is false as for it being after hours if what you do after hours affects my business then it is my business .

You're assuming moon-lighters automatically take customers from their employers. In the many years I spent as an hourly-paid electrician working for someone else, I never took my boss' customers away from him, on the clock OR off!

Now, if my (and I say MY, meaning the one I pay for) phone rings at 7 PM, and Joe Sixpack want me to do some work for him, that's fine with me, as long as Joe is not my boss' customer. If Joe is my boss' client, I tell Joe to call the office tomorrow.

 

[GilbeSpark]

I've done more side jobs than I can count or remember. As of right now I am not licensed but am actively working on it. I can honestly say, without saying this just because it's me, that I am a very good electrician. Recently I stopped doing sidework just for liability's sake, which to be honest never really thought about much before. I'm good at what I do, but not stupid.

I can also honestly say I've never stolen any of my company's business. The co I work for doesn't do service work for anyone other than it's builders or past customers. Everything I've gotten while at a job was a neighbor coming over asking for something, not a current customer asking me if I moonlight. I've turned down SEVERAL of those. 99% of my work came from friends, their friends, my neighbors and their friends. All of it was done on my own time.

Never stolen any company material or company time. If I ever needed something oddball or just real bad I'd go into the office and ask "how much would it be if I bought xxxx and xxxx from you?". But 99.99999 of material came from HD or Lowes. I kept all reciepts so if ever questioned I'd have proof nothing was stolen. I even bought my own wirenuts and staples. Not kidding. I've never been questioned about any of it.

A company can't dictate what someone does in their own time. If I'm not on the clock, they've got NO say in what I do. What, you want to tell me I can't eat cheeseburgers next? Why not, it makes me less healthy and I could have a heart attack and that would cause insurance rates to go up and cost the company more. If you fire the wrong person for doing sidework they'll sue you for wrongfull termination and win. You better have them sign something before you hire them. Even then, can an unlicensed person really classify as "competetion" before a judge?

If you have honest employees then sidework doesn't cost a company anything. In fact, it helps the company. It makes for better employees for those who care to be better. When you get into a pickle at a side job you learn to think and work in more creative ways to solve problems and get things done. If you screw up, it's your own fault and you pay for it. You can take that knowledge back to the company and be better prepared for things that might go wrong.

Hire good, honest people and you'll have no problems.

My advice to anyone starting out is surround yourself with good, positive people. Hire the best. It'll cost you more upfront but will make you lots more down the road.

 

[emahler]

I've done more side jobs than I can count or remember. As of right now I am not licensed but am actively working on it. I can honestly say, without saying this just because it's me, that I am a very good electrician. Recently I stopped doing sidework just for liability's sake, which to be honest never really thought about much before. I'm good at what I do, but not stupid.

I can also honestly say I've never stolen any of my company's business. The co I work for doesn't do service work for anyone other than it's builders or past customers. Everything I've gotten while at a job was a neighbor coming over asking for something, not a current customer asking me if I moonlight. I've turned down SEVERAL of those. 99% of my work came from friends, their friends, my neighbors and their friends. All of it was done on my own time.

Never stolen any company material or company time. If I ever needed something oddball or just real bad I'd go into the office and ask "how much would it be if I bought xxxx and xxxx from you?". But 99.99999 of material came from HD or Lowes. I kept all reciepts so if ever questioned I'd have proof nothing was stolen. I even bought my own wirenuts and staples. Not kidding. I've never been questioned about any of it.

sounds noble...

A company can't dictate what someone does in their own time. If I'm not on the clock, they've got NO say in what I do. What, you want to tell me I can't eat cheeseburgers next? Why not, it makes me less healthy and I could have a heart attack and that would cause insurance rates to go up and cost the company more.

when eating hamburgers becomes illegal.....

If you fire the wrong person for doing sidework they'll sue you for wrongfull termination and win. You better have them sign something before you hire them. Even then, can an unlicensed person really classify as "competetion" before a judge?

doesn't unlicensed classify as criminal before a judge?

If you have honest employees then sidework doesn't cost a company anything. In fact, it helps the company. It makes for better employees for those who care to be better. When you get into a pickle at a side job you learn to think and work in more creative ways to solve problems and get things done. If you screw up, it's your own fault and you pay for it. You can take that knowledge back to the company and be better prepared for things that might go wrong.

here is another way to look at it...100 guys in a given area do small side jobs (add recessed lights, service upgrades, whatever)....that's 100 less jobs for the contractors that do that type of work...they need jobs, so they go after larger jobs...they take the larger jobs from the companies who would normally do them...these larger contractors go after bigger jobs...these are the jobs you company does...now you have 10 more contractors taking the work from your company...you get less hours, so you moonlight more...so more jobs get taken from legal contractors...etc, etc, etc...

I know, these people who hire unlicensed moonlighters would never pay a contractor anyway...blah, blah, blah...look at the big picture...

and without the proper supervision, what's to say that the moonlighter will come up with the correct solution for the pickle they are in? maybe they are developing incredibly bad habits, then they take those back to your company...how is that good?

Hire good, honest people and you'll have no problems.

My advice to anyone starting out is surround yourself with good, positive people. Hire the best. It'll cost you more upfront but will make you lots more down the road.

 

[boboelectric]

In the late 1970's,I worked for a guy doing industrial work in mills only.He would get calls all the time from people needing things like an outlet here or outside lights there.He (the company) couldn't acommadate them, so he let one of us look at it after hours.

 

[jbower]

Emahler - I'm talking a one man shop. Don't have many connections, as I'm new to the area where I now live. That's what I'm struggling with - as to how to "break the ice" so to speak. I'd like to get more commercial jobs, thinking it might a better chance for repeat customers. The new home starts around here are really slowing down, and it can get pretty cut throat.

How big is your shop? Did you start out one man, and then grow? At some point I'd like to be able to hire a person or two, leaving more time for bookkeeping, estimating, etc. for myself - but I've been struggling keeping myself busy.

Just getting started, so the advertising budget is pretty slow. Where do you guys feel that I can get my most "bang for the buck"? Do I run some ads in the newspapers in those Business Directories?

Oh - one more for Emahler - where did they get their infusion of capital from?

Thanks

My brother and myself started a part-time electrical business doing small jobs nobody wanted. we called a local news paper who will do a free interview for new business in the area. We also put business cards in the area Real Estate offices and put out fliers at local gas stations. In two years we have more work than we want, we also hired two guys part-time to help with the larger jobs. With all that being said we both have full-time jobs at a local plant doing electrical and instrumentation work. We started the business to keep up with the NEC and to have something to fall back on in the future.

 

[iwire]

We started the business

Is it really a business or is it a hobby?

In other words, do you pay taxes, have workers comp for the employees, pull permits, take inspections have liability insurance etc.?

 

[jbower]

Is it really a business or is it a hobby?

In other words, do you pay taxes, have workers comp for the employees, pull permits, take inspections have liability insurance etc.?

It's a business we pay taxes, pull permits and have liability insurance. We have less than three employees (we have two part-time employees) so we are not required to have workers comp. The business is a LLC, we are a class C contractor.

 

[iwire]

It's a business we pay taxes, pull permits and have liability insurance. We have less than three employees so we are not required to have workers comp. The business is a LLC, we are a class C contractor.

Cool, thanks for the reply.

 

[melanconelectric]

Re: up and running

Re: up and running

I run a two man op ( me and a helper, which i just hired 3 mos ago). I openep my bus approx. two years ago and it wasn't until 5 or 6 mos. ago that I could make a paycheck. I too was new to the area that im in but i had a brother already in the area who is a framer so that helped tremendously with recomends to GC's he worked with. I also supplemented by working on his crew as a lead carpenter to make ends meet because with him i had freedom to go run a wiring job when it came around and still come back cause he knew what it was like to start a bus. But that is a skill, or option rather, that lots of guys dont have. Have been blessed with a few GREAT GC's of my own, now. Plus i have a great friend who manages a local supplier who is now helping get my feet in the small commercial door. My advice... If you want it, go get it. Its the American Dream! P.S. only have one truck that doubles as family vehicle (car seats, DVD players, sippy cups, receptacles, pipe benders, and cover plates!), the help doesn't have a vehicle. Rides w/ me but a good kid who wants to learn!

 

[Rewire]

I've done more side jobs than I can count or remember.

A company can't dictate what someone does in their own time. If I'm not on the clock, they've got NO say in what I do. What, you want to tell me I can't eat cheeseburgers next? Why not, it makes me less healthy and I could have a heart attack and that would cause insurance rates to go up and cost the company more. If you fire the wrong person for doing sidework they'll sue you for wrongfull termination and win. You better have them sign something before you hire them. Even then, can an unlicensed person really classify as "competetion" before a judge

You smoke dope on your time and have a drug test on mine and see how long you are employed,If you violate company policy you can be terminated and if the company says no side work then that is grounds for termination.

 

[mkgrady]

It's a business we pay taxes, pull permits and have liability insurance. We have less than three employees (we have two part-time employees) so we are not required to have workers comp. The business is a LLC, we are a class C contractor.

I thought if an employer had ANY employees workers comp is required. Are you sure you're right?

What happens if one of the employees is seriously hurt on the job? If you don't provide WC isn't the employer liable for medical and disability?
\
Where WC is provided an employee can not sue an employer for medical and lost wages due to an injury. If you don't provide the WC that liability protection is not there.