How long did it take you to really get the business up and running?

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mkgrady said:
I thought if an employer had ANY employees workers comp is required. Are you sure you're right?

What happens if one of the employees is seriously hurt on the job? If you don't provide WC isn't the employer liable for medical and disability?
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Where WC is provided an employee can not sue an employer for medical and lost wages due to an injury. If you don't provide the WC that liability protection is not there.
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It must be way different in Mass, here we pay comp, if the employee works for 10 minutes. same with unemployment and dis payments, we have had employees collect from unemployment that only had 1 day in.
 
melanconelectric said:
I run a two man op ( me and a helper, which i just hired 3 mos ago). I openep my bus approx. two years ago and it wasn't until 5 or 6 mos. ago that I could make a paycheck. I too was new to the area that im in but i had a brother already in the area who is a framer so that helped tremendously with recomends to GC's he worked with. I also supplemented by working on his crew as a lead carpenter to make ends meet because with him i had freedom to go run a wiring job when it came around and still come back cause he knew what it was like to start a bus. But that is a skill, or option rather, that lots of guys dont have. Have been blessed with a few GREAT GC's of my own, now. Plus i have a great friend who manages a local supplier who is now helping get my feet in the small commercial door. My advice... If you want it, go get it. Its the American Dream! P.S. only have one truck that doubles as family vehicle (car seats, DVD players, sippy cups, receptacles, pipe benders, and cover plates!), the help doesn't have a vehicle. Rides w/ me but a good kid who wants to learn!
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That's a very nice story, thanks for retelling it. e/m
 
Rewire said:
You smoke dope on your time and have a drug test on mine and see how long you are employed,If you violate company policy you can be terminated and if the company says no side work then that is grounds for termination.
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I don't do that either, but that's different. That affects your work performance and would void a worker's comp claim. Totally unrelated.
 
GilbeSpark said:
I don't do that either, but that's different. That affects your work performance and would void a worker's comp claim. Totally unrelated.
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Well not *totally* unrelated, more a "straw man" argument.

I've experienced everything along the spectrum from a rule of absolutely no under any circumstances to employers who would pull a permit for me when I needed one

The funny thing I've noticed is that (in my case) the times I was doing side jobs were based on real financial need. When I was getting paid well and/or had a fair bit of OT available I wasn't doing it. hmmmm

(Stroll through Home Depot on a Friday evening and look for the folks with that "deer in the headlights" expression and you're golden)
 
BryanMD said:
Well not *totally* unrelated, more a "straw man" argument.

I've experienced everything along the spectrum from a rule of absolutely no under any circumstances to employers who would pull a permit for me when I needed one

The funny thing I've noticed is that (in my case) the times I was doing side jobs were based on real financial need. When I was getting paid well and/or had a fair bit of OT available I wasn't doing it. hmmmm

(Stroll through Home Depot on a Friday evening and look for the folks with that "deer in the headlights" expression and you're golden)
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The biggest problem with guys doing side work is very few are charging market value for the work and that drives down everybody just think if you have ten contractors with ten employees each and they all do side work that is 100 jobs done below scale and at least two people were told by each of these how much they paid so 300 people now think we should work for 25 bucks an hour.So I bid a job at 85.00 per hour and they look at me like I am crazy and call the guy who does it "on the side and never takes work from his boss"
 
Rewire said:
The biggest problem with guys doing side work is very few are charging market value for the work and that drives down everybody just think if you have ten contractors with ten employees each and they all do side work that is 100 jobs done below scale and at least two people were told by each of these how much they paid so 300 people now think we should work for 25 bucks an hour.So I bid a job at 85.00 per hour and they look at me like I am crazy and call the guy who does it "on the side and never takes work from his boss"
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ding ding ding ding.....every job they take is from someone else's boss...but we tend to live in vacuums and not worry about things like that
 
Confession Time

Confession Time

emahler said:
ding ding ding ding.....every job they take is from someone else's boss...but we tend to live in vacuums and not worry about things like that
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I fully understand, appreciate and do support the reasoning.

My practice was usually in the area of one (long saturday) job a month however a few years ago I was on this long road trip thing (I'll tell that story sometime) and found it very convienent to winter in Florida.

I hooked up with some LL types buying houses and got to the point that I needed to get organized with how I dealt with them. Below is the sheet I came up with (the prices are a few years old).

Don't chew on me too hard ;)



TERRAPIN ELECTRIC XXX-XXX-XXXX
Fee Schedule for ? Good Work @ Fair Price ? Ask For Bryan

Service Calls & Repairs:
Unknown complexity of work...
Same Day attention required...
Stay at your (one) site until the complaint is resolved...
Or make it safe enough to leave the problem for a later project.

Hour #1 (to include most travel expenses) $ 70.00
Hour #2 (typical limit of time to do a repair) 50.00 ( $120 )

Hour #3 (additional time as required 40.00
Hour #4 to most practically resolve complaint 40.00
Hour #5 without requiring a return trip) 40.00 ( $120 )

Reasonable effort will be made to keep client informed
of the nature of the problem(s) found and work that is requred.
Any materials needed will be charged to client at cost.
Travel time to get materials will be charged for.
Evenings and Weekends will be charged 50% Higher Rates.

Planned Work and Improvement Projects:
Estimates are based on prior site survey by Servicer
or (warily) by the client?s description of the scope of work.
Materials needed will be charged to client at servicer cost.
Travel time to get materials will be charged as part of the day.
Time to prepare any needed or desired formal quotes or drawings
will be charged to client at applicable service rates.

Half Day on Same Site Flat Rate
Up to 4 Hours (minimum) $ 160.00

Full Day on Same Site @ $30.00/hour
8 hrs (minimum) $ 240.00
10 hrs (typical) 300.00
12 hrs (if needed) 360.00

3 or More Days on Same Site @ $25.00/hour
8 hrs (planned) $ 200.00
10 hrs (if needed or practical) 250.00

Advance payment for planned materials and full payment for
all ?Time and Material? at completion of the work is expected.
 
Ive just gone out on my own and the hardest thing for me is working alone. But I am not confident enough yet to hire anyone for fear that the work wont always be there. I have to start a 4000 sq foot home in two weeks with about 60 cans and all my friends in the trade want too much money. They think because we are friends Ill pay them 35 hour cash, when some of them only make 17- 25 now. When i tell them that i have to hire them as subs and give them a 1099 for taxes they give me that look like "Is he serious?"
When I give someone a price and they think its too much I dont sweat it too much. I now know what it cost me to do work and make money so why do I want to start working for nothing? I would rather stay home and work on my own house than work for no profit. Luckily it hasnt come to that yet but if a plumber can get 1200 for a toilet I dont feel bad about my prices.
 
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GilbeSpark said:
I've done more side jobs than I can count or remember. As of right now I am not licensed but am actively working on it. I can honestly say, without saying this just because it's me, that I am a very good electrician. Recently I stopped doing sidework just for liability's sake, which to be honest never really thought about much before. I'm good at what I do, but not stupid.

I can also honestly say I've never stolen any of my company's business. The co I work for doesn't do service work for anyone other than it's builders or past customers. Everything I've gotten while at a job was a neighbor coming over asking for something, not a current customer asking me if I moonlight. I've turned down SEVERAL of those. 99% of my work came from friends, their friends, my neighbors and their friends. All of it was done on my own time.

Never stolen any company material or company time. If I ever needed something oddball or just real bad I'd go into the office and ask "how much would it be if I bought xxxx and xxxx from you?". But 99.99999 of material came from HD or Lowes. I kept all reciepts so if ever questioned I'd have proof nothing was stolen. I even bought my own wirenuts and staples. Not kidding. I've never been questioned about any of it.

A company can't dictate what someone does in their own time. If I'm not on the clock, they've got NO say in what I do. What, you want to tell me I can't eat cheeseburgers next? Why not, it makes me less healthy and I could have a heart attack and that would cause insurance rates to go up and cost the company more. If you fire the wrong person for doing sidework they'll sue you for wrongfull termination and win. You better have them sign something before you hire them. Even then, can an unlicensed person really classify as "competetion" before a judge?

If you have honest employees then sidework doesn't cost a company anything. In fact, it helps the company. It makes for better employees for those who care to be better. When you get into a pickle at a side job you learn to think and work in more creative ways to solve problems and get things done. If you screw up, it's your own fault and you pay for it. You can take that knowledge back to the company and be better prepared for things that might go wrong.

Hire good, honest people and you'll have no problems.

My advice to anyone starting out is surround yourself with good, positive people. Hire the best. It'll cost you more upfront but will make you lots more down the road.
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My friend (unliscenced ) just rewired a kitchen for 600 bucks and i think a sandwich and he didnt even do it to code. So you tell me how people like this are OK for the industry? I always wondered what idiot would lay romex on a drop ceiling, or use lighting circuts for kitchen recepts and it just dawned on me its guys going for the quick buck. The infamous stationwagon electritian. If you have any of these guys on your staff you could bet you ass they are stealing. I seen it time and time again. And its usually the guy that always brings his big tool box home every night. I know plenty of 3-4 year apprentices that know just enough to do some really cheessy work for the quick buck. I personally have no problem turning these guys in.
 
tonyou812 said:
When i tell them that i have to hire them as subs and give them a 1099 for taxes they give me that look like "Is he serious?"
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Be very careful with this. There are strict guidelines as to who qualifies as a "subcontractor". Also, if you are hiring them as subs for electrical work in NJ, then they are contractors and they need a license and you need certificates of insurance from them.
 
People like that aren't ok for the industry. No person doing shoddy work is good for any industry. Look, I'm no advocate for unlicensed work, which in all honesty is why I stopped. I made good money doing it but there is a big liability and to me it's not worth it. I'm not starving and don't need the risk.

I can see and honestly appreciate the viewpoints from both sides of the fence, some of which I haven't considered, but my opinion still stands that no employer can tell an employee what they can or can't do when off the company clock unless it DIRECTLY affects the company.

If anyone knows of someone doing "really cheessy work for the quick buck" I would also reccommend them being turned in.
 
JES2727 said:
Be very careful with this. There are strict guidelines as to who qualifies as a "subcontractor". Also, if you are hiring them as subs for electrical work in NJ, then they are contractors and they need a license and you need certificates of insurance from them.
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I was led to beileve that as long as they are covered under my workmans comp that it was ok
 
GilbeSpark said:
People like that aren't ok for the industry. No person doing shoddy work is good for any industry. Look, I'm no advocate for unlicensed work, which in all honesty is why I stopped. I made good money doing it but there is a big liability and to me it's not worth it. I'm not starving and don't need the risk.

I can see and honestly appreciate the viewpoints from both sides of the fence, some of which I haven't considered, but my opinion still stands that no employer can tell an employee what they can or can't do when off the company clock unless it DIRECTLY affects the company.

If anyone knows of someone doing "really cheessy work for the quick buck" I would also reccommend them being turned in.
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I wasnt implying you do cheessy work. Its just that I come across alot of crappy work lately and it surprises me that people dont care about their work or their customers even if its a side jobber.
 
BryanMD said:
Well not *totally* unrelated, more a "straw man" argument.

I've experienced everything along the spectrum from a rule of absolutely no under any circumstances to employers who would pull a permit for me when I needed one

The funny thing I've noticed is that (in my case) the times I was doing side jobs were based on real financial need. When I was getting paid well and/or had a fair bit of OT available I wasn't doing it. hmmmm

(Stroll through Home Depot on a Friday evening and look for the folks with that "deer in the headlights" expression and you're golden)
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sorry this was ment to be a reply to something else but i could not delet it
 
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tonyou812 said:
I was led to beileve that as long as they are covered under my workmans comp that it was ok
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doube check...but i believe you were led wrong....in nj it's a licensed trade....as far as i know you can't sub out a licensed trade to an unlicensed contractor....

where is celtic to quote state regulations when you need him?
 
tonyou812 said:
When i tell them that i have to hire them as subs and give them a 1099 for taxes they give me that look like "Is he serious?"
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JES2727 said:
Be very careful with this. There are strict guidelines as to who qualifies as a "subcontractor". Also, if you are hiring them as subs for electrical work in NJ, then they are contractors and they need a license and you need certificates of insurance from them.
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In some states, a journeyman cannot sell his labor, only a contractor can. In those places you cannot hire a journeyman as a sub, and you cannot 1099 them unless they are "contractors".
 
tonyou812 said:
I was led to beileve that as long as they are covered under my workmans comp that it was ok
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Tony....you can either hire sub-contractors that are licensed as EC's or hire employees.
You cannot simply sub electrical work to a warm body.

What led you believe this (1099'ing warm bodies) was ok?
 
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