how many outlets on a breaker

Status
Not open for further replies.
kingpb said:
I would still use the 180VA per duplex receptacle, unless directed to do otherwise, and keep the lights separate from the recpetacle outlets. I understand that it is over the minimum required by NEC, but I am old school.

IMO, the Code is deficient in this area because of all the electronic gizmo's and what not's. It irriates me to no end to plug in an iron, and see the lights dim.
Click to expand...

In the end there's really not a lot that can be done, because even if you specified 180va per duplex, there are appliances other than gizmos that can soak up the better part of a 15 or 20A BC. Like, this 1500va space heater sitting in my bedroom. One of those can ruin your entire day. What else can be done? Design yet another plug format for 1.5A or less appliances?

My personal opinion, primarily as a consumer of these things, is that until there are design requirements in the NEC -- like my personal peeve, requiring a dedicated "electronic junk" outlet for bedrooms -- light dimming and whatnot is going to be a problem. I've posted about the power requirements for my bedroom when "all on" and it's non-trivial. (Oh, and now that I've fixed my DigiSnap (I had a hunch what was wrong because I remembered when it stopped working ...) I can get a better idea how much the junk in my room is actually using ;) )
 
Maybe the code should be changed to require a dedicated circuit, general use, 20A receptacle in every room of a house except the kitchen.

The panels get bigger due to more panel space required, there's more wiring required, and therefore the EC's will make more money.

It's a win win for all involved; i.e. manufacturer, EC, and Homeowner. (GC too, because he'll mark it up 25%)
 
kingpb said:
Maybe the code should be changed to require a dedicated circuit, general use, 20A receptacle in every room of a house except the kitchen.

The panels get bigger due to more panel space required, there's more wiring required, and therefore the EC's will make more money.

It's a win win for all involved; i.e. manufacturer, EC, and Homeowner. (GC too, because he'll mark it up 25%)
Click to expand...

Ah, I see that my mind control ray is starting to work on members :)

I think that if I were an EC tomorrow, instead of when I have even more gray hairs, that I'd have different levels of bids. You want "Electro-Geek Power Sucker", well, that's one bid and you get extra outlets near Cat5, CATV, TelCo boxes, plus at least 1000VA near that location. You want "Extra Phat Feeders and Home Runs" (that's the "Low Voltage Drop" option :) ), that's another bid and you get upsized home runs, subpanel feeders, and the like.

As it is, what I see (and this isn't a criticism -- just an observation) is ECs sharing tips on ways to cut costs, and that always seems to mean reducing the amount of copper going into the walls.
 
tallgirl said:
As it is, what I see (and this isn't a criticism -- just an observation) is ECs sharing tips on ways to cut costs, and that always seems to mean reducing the amount of copper going into the walls.
Click to expand...

Julie, putting as many receptacles as one wants to on a circuit will not reduce the amount of copper much if any at all, it will however reduce the number of breakers used.


Roger
 
stickboy1375 said:
I don't use 12 gauge at all in bedrooms, too expensive, whats the biggest load? A TV or the alarm clock? tough one...
Click to expand...
Or a home entertainment center, Craftmatic adjustable bed, and a wife/daughter that prefers to use the hair dryer in the bedroom.
 
We can argue about scenario's all day can't we... :) Should the truth be known, I run usually run homeruns to all my bedrooms, and I have NEVER had a call back for a breaker that keeps tripping.... i'll glady run a 20 amp circuit for anyone that wants to pay, but never my perferred way of wiring, just does not make sense.... IMO...:)
 
Last edited:
stickboy1375 said:
I don't use 12 gauge at all in bedrooms, too expensive, whats the biggest load? A TV or the alarm clock? tough one...
Click to expand...

1500va space heater and a 'puter setup that prolly uses something close to 1000va when really busy.
 
stickboy1375 said:
Dont you think that is over a 20 amp circuit as well? 1500+1000 =2500va, lets see 20a*120v = 2400va... hmmmm
Click to expand...

Yup. Fortunately, by the luck of the draw the 'puter outlet is on the circuit that wall shares with the guest bedroom, and the space heater is on the circuit that wall shares with the bathroom lights (6 x 60w) and outdoor floods (8 x 75w). VD with the heater and both sets of lights on is about 7 or 8 volts. I checked :)
 
stickboy1375 said:
Why would someone put a space heater in a bedroom with a heating system installed? Down south thing?
Click to expand...

I dunno -- the programmable thermostat turns heat off to the house at night. This way I heat my bedroom and not the rest of the house.

I have friends with these HUGE natural gas bills. Mine is always tiny and my electric bill isn't all that big either. Heck, this time of year the computers are about 1/3rd of the electric bill. On the other hand, I walk out into the rest of the house early in the morning in the winter and it's chilly.
 
In the bedrooms, it is probably a good idea to keep the lights and receptacles on the same circuit because AFCIs are expensive. Unfortunately, you can't use 12/3 because AFCI (like GFCI) won't operate with a shared neutral. I usually figure 180VA per outlet whether it is lights or receptacles. On a 20A circuit that would be 10 outlets and 8 outlets on a 15A circuit. That's figuring 80% of the circuit capacity. Of course, kitchens and laundry rooms would be figured different, as well as large applliance circuits as well.
 
I prefer to run the homerun to the receptacle behind the door and loop around the room to the light switch then up to the light.
'just trying to minimize having to pigtail wires above my head plus trying to keep the receptacle boxes with only one feed in and one feed out.
 
kingpb said:
Maybe the code should be changed to require a dedicated circuit, general use, 20A receptacle in every room of a house except the kitchen.

The panels get bigger due to more panel space required, there's more wiring required, and therefore the EC's will make more money.

It's a win win for all involved; i.e. manufacturer, EC, and Homeowner. (GC too, because he'll mark it up 25%)
Click to expand...
Then we can change the name to the National Electrical Financial Growth Code, and clear up any confusion that may have ensued in the process. :roll:
tallgirl said:
Ah, I see that my mind control ray is starting to work on members :)
Click to expand...
Good thing I've been wearing my tin-foil hat for the past week or so.

My soul crieth out!
90.1(B) Adequacy. This Code contains provisions that are considered necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use.
Click to expand...
Why must we continually try to inflict our design preferences on it? :mad:
 
Last edited:
georgestolz said:
Good thing I've been wearing my tin-foil hat for the past week or so.

My soul crieth out!

Why must we continually try to inflict our design preferences on it? :mad:
Click to expand...

You need to take off that tin-foil hat :)

I really do believe that given the trend in residential gadget use, this is a safety issue.

The power strip is the extension cord of years gone by. I don't know anyone who uses those horrendous t-blocks anymore, but lots of power strips roll out the doors at Wally World. Even yours truly, for all my power strip loathing, have been forced to succumb to the forces of evil and use 2 or 3 of the evil devices.
 
After seeing, and being involved in some of the discussions on this forum, I think I am finally beginning to understand what 90.1(B) means.

It's a shame though that EC's are forced to do the minimum, when most would probably like to do more, but would be faced with going out of business, by not being competitive.

Maybe we need an National Electrical Design Code.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top