How to wire?

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engy said:
if the switch is left off, you don't have the auto-on advantage...
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But that's what the OP told us (finally) they want to happen:

Hoyt said:
Motion sensors are to really shut the lights off. Soooo...the switch left in the "on" position will allow the motion sensor to turn the lights on and off. The switch left in the "off" positon the sensors will not activate the lights.
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A manual override has to have something to override. It can either keep the lights on while while ignoring the motion sensors, or it can keep the lights off while ignoring the sensors.

Now, if they want an on/off/auto capability, that's easy, too. All that's required to add* is a SPST switch with a center-off position. You can even get a standard toggle in such a config.


Added: * Besides the sensors, of course.
 
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engy said:
Yup, but I am not sure it is a good application.

We are talking about a manual off scenario, like in a conference room where you want to force the lights off during a presentation.

I think in this application, just let the occ sensors do what they do... if the switch is left off, you don't have the auto-on advantage...
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See it is not that easy just when you think you have it someone points out the lights wont be automatic with the switch off. Back to the drawing board.
 
080529-1615 EST

It seems the statement of the problem has evolved to:

Use multiple motion sensors to automatically control contactors to control lights in a fire station on detection of motion and after an off delay time turn the lights off. The off delay is inherent in the motion sensors. Additionally provide a manual means to inhibit any turn on of the lights.

Why is the manual inhibit needed? And when and why would you enable the inhibit in this application?

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gar said:
080529-1615 EST

It seems the statement of the problem has evolved to:

Use multiple motion sensors to automatically control contactors to control lights in a fire station on detection of motion and after an off delay time turn the lights off. The off delay is inherent in the motion sensors. Additionally provide a manual means to inhibit any turn on of the lights.

Why is the manual inhibit needed? And when and why would you enable the inhibit in this application?

.
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What happens when someone shuts off the lights by the switch and someone wlks in there and the sensors are disabled and they slip and break thier neck who gets the pitbull lawyers attatched to thier buttocks?? Any takers? Hope you dont have a dba and a llc instead when this happens. Jury would be more sympathetic to poor firefighter trying to do thier job as electrician trying to cut corners does his own unsafe instalation because thats what the customer wanted. Good luck with that one.
 
quogueelectric said:
What happens when someone shuts off the lights by the switch and someone wlks in there and the sensors are disabled and they slip and break thier neck who gets the pitbull lawyers attatched to thier buttocks??
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My office only has manual switches. If I were to walk in there but forget to turn the lights on, then I hurt myself, should I sue my employer?

Is there a rule that says the lights must turn on automatically?

And what about using the sensors to turn the lights off? Isn't that just as dangerous as the lights not turning on automatically? Mechanic crawls under the truck to do some work, and the lights turn off a bit later, and he injures himself in the dark....
 
crossman said:
And what about using the sensors to turn the lights off? Isn't that just as dangerous as the lights not turning on automatically? Mechanic crawls under the truck to do some work, and the lights turn off a bit later, and he injures himself in the dark....
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That would be my concern.

How about a sticker above the switches that reads "Turn off lights when not in use". Treat them like big boys.
 
crossman said:
Mechanic crawls under the truck to do some work, and the lights turn off a bit later, and he injures himself in the dark....
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You forgot the "what if":D :cool:
If they are doing anything major under there, they will probably not be alone, and probably have a trouble light...
Is "probably" any better than "what if"?:-? :cool:
 
mivey said:
How about a sticker above the switches that reads "Turn off lights when not in use". Treat them like big boys.
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Depends if your area has an energy code I guess...
Maybe a better idea is to have a manual override for "on" for these limited instances when there may be a perceived danger.

This could become a good thread since for the most part, there will be no wrong answers.
 
Disclaimer: I never claimed that my solution (or the OP's request) was the safest or smartest way to do what he asked for, just the simplest.
 
LarryFine said:
Disclaimer: I never claimed that my solution (or the OP's request) was the safest or smartest way to do what he asked for, just the simplest.
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Exactly. No one was trying to design the "perfectly-safe lawyer-free" solution. We were just providing a control scheme to meet the OP's request.
 
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