Hydro massage Bathtubs

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romeo

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Question, when wiring hydro massage bathtubs, do most electricians make sure that the wiring and all electrical equipment are accessible as required by NEC 680.73, or are they leaving it to the installer to meet that code requirement?

Seems to me that it is the electricians responsibility, but I find that they are installing a gfci recpt. and walking away.
 
romeo said:
Question, when wiring hydro massage bathtubs, do most electricians make sure that the wiring and all electrical equipment are accessible as required by NEC 680.73, or are they leaving it to the installer to meet that code requirement?

Seems to me that it is the electricians responsibility, but I find that they are installing a gfci recpt. and walking away.
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I make sure my receptacle is accessible and I am happy. I don't repair the tub so I don't worry about the motor--- that's the builders responsibility-- they can hash it out.

I do tell them it must be accessible and they always comply.
 
I always comment about the accesibility during rough-in.

If they choose to ignore it, it will become an issue during either the plumbing or electrical trim inspection. Both want to peek underneath. If they can't, there's no CO issued until then.

Oh well, I warned 'em!
 
Hydromassage Bathtubs

Hydromassage Bathtubs

Dennis Alwon said:
I make sure my receptacle is accessible and I am happy. I don't repair the tub so I don't worry about the motor--- that's the builders responsibility-- they can hash it out.

I do tell them it must be accessible and they always comply.
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They always comply? You must be joking. IMO the motor is part of the part of the equipment, covered by the NEC that makes it the electricians responsibility.
 
Ironicly, I was just looking at a house today where I was questioning that issue. First let me say that I think it is the ECs job to locate the receptacle in an accesible location. That being said, I'm not sure it is always that easy. We delivered a generator to a home today and while waiting for the GC I thought I would "wander" ;) around. I was amazed at some of the things I saw. (Check out my soon coming Spot the Violation). In the master was the cavity for the spa tub with 2 receptacles, one at each end. One end had the access panel, the other end, no access panel currently in place. Once the tub is in, there is zero chance the far receptacle would be accesible without the addition of a second access panel. My guess is the two recepts are for motor and heater, one mounted on each end. Common set-up. The delima is this...can you install an extention cord on, say, the heater, so that both receptacles can be located on one end, or is that a violation. I'm not sure that an extion cord is acceptable. I do not know if the factory cords are long enough to reach either end for grouping of receptacles. In this case, I would say that the GC is responsible for adding an access panel to make the far receptacle code compliant, or, if factory cords are long enough, the EC will have to relocate the far recpt. Whew. Sorry for the excessive info.
 
The building codes also require access to the pump motor.

Here is what the plumbing section of the IRC has to say:

P2720.1 Access to pump. Access shall be provided to circulation pumps in accordance with the fixture manufacturer?s installation instructions. Where the manufacturer?s instructions do not specify the location and minimum size of field fabricated access openings, a 12-inch by 12-inch (304 mm by 304 mm) minimum size opening shall be installed to provide access to the circulation pump. Where pumps are located more than 2 feet (609 mm) from the access opening, an 18-inch by 18-inch (457 mm by 457 mm) minimum size opening shall be installed. A door or panel shall be permitted to close the opening. In all cases, the access opening shall be unobstructed and be of the size necessary to permit the removal and replacement of the circulation pump.
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I will locate my receptacle so that it is accessible throught this required access. Might as well kill two birds with one stone.

Chris
 
romeo said:
They always comply? You must be joking. IMO the motor is part of the part of the equipment, covered by the NEC that makes it the electricians responsibility.
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I'm not there is a GC out there that wants his EC creating access panels. If elctrical can be located at existing access location, than EC needs to put it there. If equipment is installed that requires access or requires electrical that requires access, than I feel it is the GC that should make provisions.
 
I have seen a lot of spa tubs on finals that have been completely tiled in and it really breaks my heart to tell the GC that he'll have to call his tile guy back out.:D
 
I worked as a plumber and also electrician. Half the time nobody knows where the access panel is going to be, the other half of the time someone waits until the last minute to order the tub. I usually leave a tail so when they move the tub halfway accross the room I can still wire it ok (after its installed)
 
Hydrmassage Bathtub

Hydrmassage Bathtub

raider1 said:
The building codes also require access to the pump motor.

Here is what the plumbing section of the IRC has to say:



I will locate my receptacle so that it is accessible throught this required access. Might as well kill two birds with one stone.

Chris
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Thank you for that information. Now I can get the plumbing inspector to support me.
 
Hydromassage Bathtubs

Hydromassage Bathtubs

360Youth said:
I'm not there is a GC out there that wants his EC creating access panels. If electrical can be located at existing access location, than EC needs to put it there. If equipment is installed that requires access or requires electrical that requires access, than I feel it is the GC that should make provisions.
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I completely agree that the access must be provided by the GC, but it is a NEC requirement and if it is not provided the the EC should not wire it, and I red tag it as a violation created by the EC. I can not require the GC to obied by NEC regulations when he has a qualified EC doing his work.

The GC provides a access panel without any consideration for the location of the receptacle or the pump motor and thinks his job is done,just as the EC that puts the receptacle in and leaves.There is no excuse the EC is there on the finish and should be testing the gfci receptacle,at that time he can judge if the motor is can be removed for repair or replacement. I see some that are 3ft. away from the access panel.
 
I just did an outlet for a hydro tub and I put it so that the outlet can be serviced from the access panel for servicing the motor and that is accessable..How the HO creates that access is their problem not mine..Nowhere do I read it is my responsibility for doing the carpentry..Why would you use a GFCI outlet on this hydro tub??so home owner can open up access couple of times and become frustrated and change out outlet and put in regular outlet??I use breakers it is more convenient to the home owner and less likely to be replaced due to triping..HO normally fixes the problem; with GFCI outlets the HO normally just replaces with regular outlets..HO normally has more faith in the breaker than the outlet or atleast in my experience they do..
 
cschmid said:
I use breakers it is more convenient to the home owner and less likely to be replaced due to triping.
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I prefer a gfi device (not receptacle) in a convenient, out of sight, nearby location so HO will not have to trek out to garage or downstairs panel to reset should it trip. If no convenient place, than a breaker. I agree, gfi behind access panel is a no-no.
 
We would usually put a regular receptacle under the tub, fed by a dead front (blank) GFI usually located above the switches in the bathroom. Easy to locate (Unlike one where an electrician put a GFCI in the master closet behind a door that fed the tub... yea, that was an easy find for me, and the homeowner).
 
badabing said:
(Unlike one where an electrician put a GFCI in the master closet behind a door that fed the tub... yea, that was an easy find for me, and the homeowner).
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That's typically where I put them.

And the HO knows it's (they're) there because I always do a walk-through with them after everything is trimmed out.
 
Hydromassage Bathtub

Hydromassage Bathtub

480sparky said:
That's typically where I put them.

And the HO knows it's (they're) there because I always do a walk-through with them after everything is trimmed out.
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Again I agree,that the gfci protection should not be located behind the access panel,and most of the time it is not,but when it is it is not a violation( I don't think) The question is not about the location of the gfci protection but of the accessibility of the motor and receptacle. Most seem to think it is the responsibility of the GC,and basically it is his, to provide, but ultimately it is up to the EC to be sure that it is code compliant. IMO there is no way out of it,we are subject to the requirements of the code, not the GC.
 
romeo said:
IMO there is no way out of it,we are subject to the requirements of the code, not the GC.
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Yes that is true except when the equipment being installed demands an access. As I mentioned earlier, I saw an instance where the tub had factory equipment on both ends. The EC could put both outlets at the access panel, but the tub itself requires access to it. If equipment installed requires electrical at a particular location, then it is GCs responsibility to provide that access. I believe GC is bound to each code involved in construction. You don't see a plumber framing access to his valves. EC should locate at planned access if able to, but if not....I agree with you in that I did a remodel a few weeks ago where a junction had to be made in the ceiling above ceiling height. I grabbed some framing and boxed out a hole location for whatever future finished celing goes back.
 
Hydromassage Bathtub

Hydromassage Bathtub

360Youth said:
Yes that is true except when the equipment being installed demands an access. As I mentioned earlier, I saw an instance where the tub had factory equipment on both ends. The EC could put both outlets at the access panel, but the tub itself requires access to it. If equipment installed requires electrical at a particular location, then it is GCs responsibility to provide that access. I believe GC is bound to each code involved in construction. You don't see a plumber framing access to his valves. EC should locate at planned access if able to, but if not....I agree with you in that I did a remodel a few weeks ago where a junction had to be made in the ceiling above ceiling height. I grabbed some framing and boxed out a hole location for whatever future finished celing goes back.
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Maybe I should explain,I am talking about new home installations.I totally agree that it is up to the GC to provide a access panel that meets the requirements,but it is up to the EC to be sure that happens or be in violation.

If I fail the installation on that grounds it will be to the EC. I would be interested to see what the result would be if someone challenged to the state board.
 
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