Hydrogen generator

[cschmid]

okay I have a question..hydrogen produces H2O as a by product..how would that affect the exhaust systems and the road surfaces at freezing temperatures and below zero temps..I can see some increased maintenance..

 

[winnie]

okay I have a question..hydrogen produces H2O as a by product..how would that affect the exhaust systems

Given the amount of water consumed by the system (as reported in a previous post), the difference would be insignificant.

Remember that burning _any_ hydrocarbon produces a mixture of water and carbon dioxide in the exhaust, in roughly a 50:50 mix. The reported process would slightly change the ratio.

Just to repeat, I don't believe that this system works, but want to make sure that my nay-saying is limited to facts. The amount of energy released by the combustion of the 'brown gas' _must_ be less than the energy that goes into making it...if this system does work, it is because the inefficient sub-process of making the 'brown gas' and burning it somehow improves the efficiency of the main power generation cycle.

-Jon

 

[hillbilly]

Just to repeat, I don't believe that this system works, but want to make sure that my nay-saying is limited to facts.

Have you got any hard facts that you can share?
I'm always trying to learn

The amount of energy released by the combustion of the 'brown gas' _must_ be less than the energy that goes into making it...

Where is it written..or been proven that it takes exactly the same amount (or more) energy to break a molecule of water than the amount of energy that is released when the hydrogen/oxygen gas mixture is burned?
This is not a motor turning a generator to power a motor...ect. concept.

if this system does work, it is because the inefficient sub-process of making the 'brown gas' and burning it somehow improves the efficiency of the main power generation cycle.

This is one of the reasons....but not the only one.
This process will improve and cause a significant change in the way we produce energy.
This is my opinion.....I guess that we will wait and see.

As the saying goes...."the proof is in the pudding".

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.


steve

 

[Cold Fusion]

(cut) Where is it written..or been proven that it takes exactly the same amount (or more) energy to break a molecule of water than the amount of energy that is released when the hydrogen/oxygen gas mixture is burned? (cut)

Well, the Second Law of Thermodymanics pretty well says that it will take more energy to to break the bond than you get back on combining them.

(cut) This is not a motor turning a generator to power a motor...ect. concept.] (cut)

Yes, that is exactly what you are advocating. If it takes less energy to break the bond than one gets back on combining, then there is energy left over for a motor to turn a gen ..........

cf

 

[Cold Fusion]

All who have or have studied H2 generators:

From the previous posts there are a couple of things I don't understand.

When the H2, O2 is produced is it left mixed together all the way to the ICE?

Assuming, "Yes", is the H2, O2 mix directly injected into the ICE manifold?

If so, is there any sort of flame arrestor in the line from the generator to the manifold?

If not what prevents an ICE backfire from ........?

Just curious

cf

 

[cschmid]

so how do the hydrogen pumps in California get there hydrogen or should I say how is it manufactured and delivered and stored..does the process cost as much as refining oil..did anyone hear in the news the the US postal service is going to hydrogen mail vans..

 

[brantmacga]

does anyone know exactly how much energy it takes to make the HHO? i've searched every page I could find of those selling the plans or kits for these, and none say exactly how much it takes. is there a formula we can use to determine how much output is needed?

 

[dereckbc]

does anyone know exactly how much energy it takes to make the HHO?

It is real easy to find out.

Hydrogen

When the electrical energy is included with heat losses around 30 to 40%. That means for every 2 units of energy input, you get less than 1 out. That energy comes from the engine via the ineffecient alternator with its losses.

No matter how you try to spin it the second law of thermodynamics cannot be violated period.

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

Is this an electrical site or an HHO generation site? Just wondering.

It does make interesting discussion - and I think the rise in gas prices is getting most people thinking about energy alternatives. Let's hope those lazy SOBs in Congress are as interested as the folks on this forum.

Larry Fine for Senator. Now that has a ring to it!

 

[mivey]

Is this an electrical site or an HHO generation site? Just wondering.

It does make interesting discussion - and I think the rise in gas prices is getting most people thinking about energy alternatives. Let's hope those lazy SOBs in Congress are as interested as the folks on this forum.

Larry Fine for Senator. Now that has a ring to it!

It may become both, if we are going to have a bunch of hydrogen fueled cars at home. Some EC is going to have to hook up some hydrogen generators that run on electricity that comes from the multitude of nuclear plants we are going to have to build.

 

[hillbilly]

When the H2, O2 is produced is it left mixed together all the way to the ICE?

Yes

Assuming, "Yes", is the H2, O2 mix directly injected into the ICE manifold?

If so, is there any sort of flame arrestor in the line from the generator to the manifold?

Yes

If not what prevents an ICE backfire from ........?

Good question, and yes it can cause a backfire and explosion in the hydrogen generator.

Most people that have one use a small secondary container filled with water to bubble the gas thru before it is sucked into the intake.
This isolates the Hydrogen unit from the intake and any backfire.



steve

 

[crossman]

I don't feel it is improper to discuss this topic on the electrical forum.

Quote from http://water4gas.com/2books.htm?hop=writeangle "In fact I drove with my multi-cell for 4 months - April through July 2007 - without having to add water!"

So less than 6 quarts of water over a four month period can "double your gas mileage"???

That just doesn't make any sense in respect to physics and chemistry.

 

[winnie]

so how do the hydrogen pumps in California get there hydrogen or should I say how is it manufactured and delivered and stored..

Most of the Hydrogen used for industrial processing, fertilizer manufacture, and fuel is made from natural gas.

Natural gas is primarily methane (CH4) which you can process with water (H2O) to get a mixture of carbon dioxide (CO2) and Hydrogen.

There are also ways to chemically process other fuels to Hydrogen, usually by chemically reacting the fuels with water to make CO2 and Hydrogen.

Some small amount of Hydrogen is produced electrolytically.

-Jon

 

[dereckbc]

Some small amount of Hydrogen is produced electrolytically.
-Jon

You are correct, about 4%. The reason why the process is is too darn inefficient and a waist of energy resources and money.

 

[crossman]

Ford announced it lost 7 billion last quarter. Chevy lost 3 billion. Honda made a record profit. If an inexpensive hydrogen generator could increse the gas mileage of a typical Ford or Chevy so they could compete with the Honda, trust me, Ford and Chevy would be all over it.

 

[cschmid]

so we use the expensive natural gas to refine hydrogen and then that added load on natural gas has the possibility to drive up heating (natural gas) costs..

 

[dereckbc]

so we use the expensive natural gas to refine hydrogen and then that added load on natural gas has the possibility to drive up heating (natural gas) costs..

Build gas cooled nuclear reactors and you get tons of free hydrogen as a by-product, plus lots of excess heat to turn coal into liquid fuel. In fact DOE is building two nuke plants right now with CTL refinery plants

 

[dereckbc]

Ford announced it lost 7 billion last quarter. Chevy lost 3 billion. Honda made a record profit. If an inexpensive hydrogen generator could increse the gas mileage of a typical Ford or Chevy so they could compete with the Honda, trust me, Ford and Chevy would be all over it.

Honda Motor company is the most inovative and forward thinking auto manufacture in the world, and if HHO worked they would would have done it back in the 70's during the oil embargo when this ugly scam first appeared..

 

[cschmid]

Build gas cooled nuclear reactors and you get tons of free hydrogen as a by-product, plus lots of excess heat to turn coal into liquid fuel. In fact DOE is building two nuke plants right now with CTL refinery plants

Lets see the nuclear plants are coops..subdized by the government if they can sell this to the post office they can sell there byproducts and make more profit..I tell you now that is good business management...yet if the hydrogen is so good then tell me why are there no hydrogen power generators..