I dont see how.

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G

GG

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Ft.Worth, T.X.
I was called by a builder who said he wanted me to wire some 2400 sq. ft. homes for him. He supplies all lights, all appliances are electric, and 200 amp panel is what they have been using. 3 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath, 1 1/2 story. I told him 10K. He nearly had a heart attack. He said where he was from he was paying 4500.00. I said well their price has no bearing on me what so ever. I dont care if they charged you $2.00, my price is $10,000.00. Needless to say he hung up. He prompted me to call some other electrical contractors in the area to see what they charge. 1 guy said $1.50 per sq. ft. Thats 3600.00. Another guy said 6000.00. I looked at their numbers on paper and figured material and profit and I dont see how these EC's are making a dime on these jobs. Most builders I have met drive 60K dollar pick ups and live in 500K dollar homes. Guess thats because their are guys that will wire their houses they build for $3600.00. So I wanted 10K. You figure the house will sell for what, 140-180K, and I cant get a little ole 10K for the electrical. Give me a break!!

[ August 27, 2005, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: GG ]
 
Re: I dont see how.

Were you planning on using journeymen or installers ? Makes big differance.Some companies wire well over 2,000 homes a year and profit is about $300 per home.They buy in volume and that's where the 300 comes from.Yes crazy and thats why i stopped wiring homes.
 
Re: I dont see how.

I was going to use 2 residential wireman. I guess I will stick with my service work. $300 profit for busting my hump pulling romex all day. No Thanks.
 
Re: I dont see how.

Maybe I need to re-think this. 2000 homes at $300.00 is $600,000.00, but how many builders can give you that many homes, and how many homes can a builder build in a year? This builder who called me said he builds 3 a year. I guess If he had said 300 then $4500 may have been a good price.
 
Re: I dont see how.

But if you sit behind desk and let your men pull the wire and they turn out a house an hour then it's $300 an hour :D
That's how they do it here.
 
Re: I dont see how.

What we see here is farms being sold off and gated comunities of 500 to 1,000 going in.They can build an easy 500 a year with enough workers.With planning in place and solid schedule 3 months per house is realistic.Just takes lots of good subs.

Ihad 2 builders years ago that were cousins and compteted with each other.One gave me about 8 or 10 a year while the other was giving me 30 .The first one was trying to do most of the work himself.One day i asked him how many could he put up if he subed all the work out.Well he soon caught on and started turning out far more.
 
Re: I dont see how.

Scott, put the hippie wine bottle down and go to bed.

Roger
 
Re: I dont see how.

A home such as that could easily be done for $4500.00. Hire some "installers" (read: rope slinging monkeys.) and pay them piece work, so much per opening. Hire one guy that knows his stuff to hang services and make sure the monkeys don't screw up too badly.

Mind you, I didn't say I would do that job for $4500.00, but I've seen many a contractor who would. Which is why I, like JimWalker, got out of the housing game.
 
Re: I dont see how.

Sure, a house like that can be wired for $4500 to bare code minimum. It's done all the time for builders who don't want their homes to have any electrical "luxuries." 2 circuits for the kitchen, no dedicated for the fridge. One for dishwasher. One switched outlet per room. One circuit for all 3 bathrooms. One overhead fixture in the bathrooms and kitchen. Yup, it's cheap and nasty.

Now, a real wiring job should cost no less than $10,000.
 
Re: I dont see how.

Is it just me or does it seem like these "builders" just happen to have the money to pay for the property and the cost of building and selling the house? Most "builders" I have met seem like complete morons, and in my opinion dont "work" for a living. They just show up at the job site, low ball every trade that comes out and works like a dog to get this guys house ready to sell, and just sits back and watches the money roll in. What are the requirements to become a "builder", a couple 100K in your bank account to invest and tie up into building homes? Im getting to the point where if someone calls and says he is a "builder" Im just hanging up. :mad:
 
Re: I dont see how.

I think I am going to throw up :) That would be an instant 33% raise for them.
WOW, my feeling is that after several years of schooling and ojt that my skills are worth much more. I have lost jobs to some of these low bidders but while they are working on not going hungry I find jobs paying much more in profit in just one day than they do for a whole house. I can't help but think that if everyone started bidding a little higher we'd all live better.
Just my opinion I am a newer contractor but I just picked up my first new construction house 1796 sf under air for $9,675 with no frills other than a few fan boxes and 7 recessed can fixtures.?!
Maybe I should bid much lower so that I can do 10 houses to make the profit I will on this one?
And I thought my bid may have been a little low?
 
Re: I dont see how.

10K not bad gives a little room for extras It could add two can lights in and no problem no change order don't even notice in the pocket. But at 4.5K any addition is change orders and paperwork costs and keep adding up also 4.5K no low voltage extra so by the time it is all said and done 2400 sq.ft. house gets expensive a lot more than 4.5K.
 
Re: I dont see how.

Remember that the large fast food chains may only make 25 cents profit on a hamburger but when you sell 10 million a day it soon adds up. The way big companies figure profit is after all expenses have been paid including salaries and all other operating cost. The $300 profit is not as bad as it sounds. It's still hard for a small contractor to compete with those that do 2000 homes a year. But it's hard for the big contractors to do custom homes. They have to hire people with higher shill levels and they have to repair their mistakes. Lots of time on the clock. That builder that only wants to build 3 houses a year is not going to get production rates on electrical and is not going to get any big breaks on building materials. If a builder only does three houses a year you should price your work just like you would for a homeowner. He is small time and is not going to get a price break from anyone else.
 
Re: I dont see how.

The trick to residential is get large fast.The owner of small companies need to make there living from maybe 4 or 5 employies.So to make even $1,000 a week for them self they need to make 200 to 250 on each man or about $5 an hour on each man.They get no price breaks on material and just manage to stay open.When a company wires 2,000 homes a year things change fast.Start with buying power,pallets of romex,panels,box's,etc.There savings on material are easily 5%to 10%.They hire installers that know next to nothing if even that much.Hand them drawings showing what wire to run where.They might have one $12 an hour guy to oversee the job with 5 guys under him at $8 .Lead man lays out rooms then builds service.They walk in and wire a simple bare min 3/2 in one day.Now if you have 8 crews doing roughs and another 8 crews doing trims ,you are turning a house an hour.At $300 per house you take home $12,000 a week.It requires hiring a few good men to go behind fixing problems and some good office help.
Bottom line is the owner makes his money by buying materials cheap and making only a few dollars an hour off each mans hourly wage.

Think about it and you will see why his price is cheap.He will beat a normal shops prices every time.
 
Re: I dont see how.

Jim, your post is not the way it is in all locations. In the city I primarily work in, it is a 1 to 1 ratio, (license holder to apprentice) on any job, even lowly spec homes.

Roger
 
Re: I dont see how.

Originally posted by GG:
Is it just me or does it seem like these "builders" just happen to have the money to pay for the property and the cost of building and selling the house? Most "builders" I have met seem like complete morons, and in my opinion dont "work" for a living. They just show up at the job site, low ball every trade that comes out and works like a dog to get this guys house ready to sell, and just sits back and watches the money roll in. What are the requirements to become a "builder", a couple 100K in your bank account to invest and tie up into building homes? Im getting to the point where if someone calls and says he is a "builder" Im just hanging up. :mad:
Click to expand...
It's not even that expensive or difficult. Some builders (aroung here, anyway) get a note for the land purchase from the seller, clear it and sell the timber and the topsoil to cover the land clearing/grading expenses. Then the "new development" sign goes up and the homes all are sold and have deposits on them before the first survey stake even hits the ground.
 
Re: I dont see how.

Originally posted by roger:
In the city I primarily work in, it is a 1 to 1 ratio, (license holder to apprentice) on any job, even lowly spec homes.

Roger
Click to expand...
Ditto here, large fines, license suspensions etc. for getting caught 'out of ratio'.

We also work jobs that have 5 to 1 ratios, thats five journeymen to one apprentice. :eek:
 
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