- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Okay, here's my problem.
Please be gentle.
Please be gentle.
I hate kitchen remodeling...
- Thread starter George Stolz
- Start date
- Status
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: I hate kitchen remodeling...
Why are your options so limited? Chop holes and run the wiring as it should be, using the holes cut for the cans as part of your new wiring route.
Are the enclosures for the recessed cans listed for all of the conductors you seem to want to install? .
Why are your options so limited? Chop holes and run the wiring as it should be, using the holes cut for the cans as part of your new wiring route.
Are the enclosures for the recessed cans listed for all of the conductors you seem to want to install?
.
mdshunk
Senior Member
- Location
- Right here.
Re: I hate kitchen remodeling...
Your propsed use of a two wire cable for just the three way travelers violates ?300.3(B)
Your propsed use of a two wire cable for just the three way travelers violates ?300.3(B)
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: I hate kitchen remodeling...
That said I have to agree with Pierre, make some holes, do some damage.
Another option would be some switching modules, I know Leviton makes them, all you need is two wire feed anywhere you want to locate a switch.
Not necessarily, check out 300.3(B)(3).
That said I have to agree with Pierre, make some holes, do some damage.
Another option would be some switching modules, I know Leviton makes them, all you need is two wire feed anywhere you want to locate a switch.
physis
Senior Member
Re: I hate kitchen remodeling...
I'm getting a headache. English isn't the best language for this.
What program do you use to make the drawings? I use MS Publisher. And photobucket shrunk the image I posted for a test to a point that it was nearly unusable. It was rather complex though. I should look at it's memory size.
I haven't really digested your senario yet but thought I'd make some initial inconclusive comments. I personally wouldn't lose any sleep over the EMF issue. I'm ducking behind my couch now.
I haven't figured if you have an EMF issue or not yet. You can figure it out yourself by just knowing that:
If there's only one current carrying conductor there is an issue.
That one conductor's EMF can be cancelled by placing another conductor with current going in the opposite direction next to it.
And it doesn't even have to be from the same source. But it does have to be the same amount of current. But if it's from the same circuit it's handled (circuit as defined in electrical theory, not NEC).
I don't think there's a thing wrong with doing remodel wiring creatively as long as it's compliant. And I disagree with Pierre that you should make a bunch of holes. I balance how much destruction I do with how much it will cost to repair it verses how much I cost.
Pierre is right about using the recessed light holes for accomplishing cable runs and I'd add installing junction boxes in the attic space(not fun but doable) because I also agree with Pierre that you'll definitely be close to the limit in the light box if not over with the other connection in it. (Add periods where needed )
I think I'll have some other stuff later but I'm gonna go check my Bar B Q now.
Edit: Error B
[ June 05, 2005, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
I'm getting a headache. English isn't the best language for this.
What program do you use to make the drawings? I use MS Publisher. And photobucket shrunk the image I posted for a test to a point that it was nearly unusable. It was rather complex though. I should look at it's memory size.
I haven't really digested your senario yet but thought I'd make some initial inconclusive comments. I personally wouldn't lose any sleep over the EMF issue. I'm ducking behind my couch now.
I haven't figured if you have an EMF issue or not yet. You can figure it out yourself by just knowing that:
If there's only one current carrying conductor there is an issue.
That one conductor's EMF can be cancelled by placing another conductor with current going in the opposite direction next to it.
And it doesn't even have to be from the same source. But it does have to be the same amount of current. But if it's from the same circuit it's handled (circuit as defined in electrical theory, not NEC).
I don't think there's a thing wrong with doing remodel wiring creatively as long as it's compliant. And I disagree with Pierre that you should make a bunch of holes. I balance how much destruction I do with how much it will cost to repair it verses how much I cost.
Pierre is right about using the recessed light holes for accomplishing cable runs and I'd add installing junction boxes in the attic space(not fun but doable) because I also agree with Pierre that you'll definitely be close to the limit in the light box if not over with the other connection in it. (Add periods where needed
)I think I'll have some other stuff later but I'm gonna go check my Bar B Q now.
Edit: Error B
[ June 05, 2005, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: I hate kitchen remodeling...
Here is the link to the Leviton switches.
Remote switching
As far as the LV switching, yeah plenty of off the shelf equipment.
Here is the link to the Leviton switches.
Remote switching
As far as the LV switching, yeah plenty of off the shelf equipment.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: I hate kitchen remodeling...
Originally posted by physis:
Wow. There are two posts that weren't there before that just showed up before my first post.
Seriously that happens sometimes, the order sometimes changes.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: I hate kitchen remodeling...
I do not walk into the building kicking holes in the wall along the way.
But if I need to make a hole to do my job....
I guess that is why they do not send me to to many houses.
It all depends on our own definition of unnecessary.Originally posted by physis:
Turns out I was disagreeing with you too about tearing the building do.... I mean unnecessary holes.
I do not walk into the building kicking holes in the wall along the way.
But if I need to make a hole to do my job....
I guess that is why they do not send me to to many houses.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: I hate kitchen remodeling...
Anything wrong with adding a junction box that can be reached from removing a can?
Anything wrong with adding a junction box that can be reached from removing a can?
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: I hate kitchen remodeling...
Finding that definition is tricky sometimes. That's why I like doing new construction. If I make holes, there's an army of drywallers on standby to patch them.
You sure you weren't accidentally grabbing the "thumbnail" instead of the full size image? I haven't had any resizing problems.
And I think if I went "holey" I'd be called the "unemployed electrician."
Fellas, I appreciate the replies.
Finding that definition is tricky sometimes. That's why I like doing new construction. If I make holes, there's an army of drywallers on standby to patch them.
I use Appleworks. I have a Mac.
You sure you weren't accidentally grabbing the "thumbnail" instead of the full size image? I haven't had any resizing problems.
Yes, I'll end up with three 14-2's per can, tops.Pierre wrote:
Are the enclosures for the recessed cans listed for all of the conductors you seem to want to install?
And I think if I went "holey" I'd be called the "unemployed electrician."
Yes, and why do that when I have a junction box attached to the can?
Fellas, I appreciate the replies.
curt swartz
Senior Member
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: I hate kitchen remodeling...
George, you might want to consider using an electronic multi-location dimmer such as the Lightolier Sunrise or Onset. The main dimmer could be placed in the new switch location since it requires 3 wires (line, load & control). The remote could be placed in the existing switch box since it only requires 2 wires (line and control). The cost for one dimmer and remote should be less than $40.
George, you might want to consider using an electronic multi-location dimmer such as the Lightolier Sunrise or Onset. The main dimmer could be placed in the new switch location since it requires 3 wires (line, load & control). The remote could be placed in the existing switch box since it only requires 2 wires (line and control). The cost for one dimmer and remote should be less than $40.
curt swartz
Senior Member
- Location
- San Jose, CA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Re: I hate kitchen remodeling...
This link has wiring diagrams for Sunrise Preset dimmers.
http://www.lolcontrols.com/clientuploads/techdocs/87-0105A.pdf
This link has wiring diagrams for Sunrise Preset dimmers.
http://www.lolcontrols.com/clientuploads/techdocs/87-0105A.pdf
physis
Senior Member
Re: I hate kitchen remodeling...
I always wanted to do new construction cause it's so much neater. But I think I've changed my mind seeing the posts on this forum. It seems like the employers that do it suck. Want impossible work speed, have no ethics, wont pay much, promote awful work habbits and in general give an otherwise respecable industry a bad name. Sorry, didn't mean to say that much on that.
We have that in remodeling too. I hate working while they're in there. They are the sloppiest trade in the universe. Everything in the building is their drop cloth.
I don't know. I haven't bothered looking into it yet. I saw that it mentions adjusting size if you're over the memory limit.I use Appleworks. I have a Mac.
You sure you weren't accidentally grabbing the "thumbnail" instead of the full size image? I haven't had any resizing problems.
and why do that when I have a junction box attached to the can?
Fellas, I appreciate the replies.
- Status