I need to stop going to the supply house near my place

[ramsy]

(This assumes you are a legit EC that doesn't work out of his truck) ..Did I mention supply houses deliver free and you can have your complete order sitting at YOUR dock door?

Sophisticated managers use JIT (Just-In-Time) inventory models to reduce storage space, material theft, or volume defects not eligible for return.

EC's that can make JIT work "from a service truck" may find reduced overhead and more profit.

The OP identifies a recent breakdown in over-the-counter support for his preferred inventory system, and may lack purchase volume typically required for sales-agent support, or door to door delivery.

I'm of the opinion, the OP should be looking to move his business elsewhere rather than change his JIT system.

 

[Strathead]

Given a choice, I prefer to work with only one or two supply houses. Make sure they know that you depend on them and will be extremely dissapointed if the spot pricing checks turn up that they are consistantly overcharging you. Then make the mistakes hurt them. For example, the box of connectors that was short. I would have gotten on the phone, explained their mistake and insisted that the branch manager, either get in his car and bring them to me, or make arrangments for someone else to. Other times throw them a bone. Chew them out, and let them off the hook "this time." Even a small contractor who does most of his business in one place should have some pull.

BTW, Epic has very good pricing information on a lot of products to give you a guide on how much you should be charged.

 

[kwired]

I'm lucky enough to have a relatively large choice of suppliers within my working range:

Yale - 2 locations
Colonial - 2 locations
Billows - 1 location
Rumsey - 1 location
United - 1 location
Yesco - 1 location
CES - 1 location

Out of that list there are three that I use way more than the others. They have more knowledgeable staff, better inventory and comparable prices. Inventory is starting to suffer as more suppliers move to a "Keep two in stock" approach and more and more things are second day items. That may affect who I do most of my business with since it can really get ridiculous at times (ex. not having enough Maestro dimmers on stock to fit out one kitchen...). The staff at one of the suppliers is SO BAD that I really only use them in an emergency. I've literally walked in on a sleeping counter guy who never woke up as I walked around looking for what I needed, didn't find it and walked out. Geez. That one specializes in supplying bigger contractors who do housing and commercial spaces - so not much business after 8 AM

The profile of my work doesn't lend itself to me investing in a pile of gear sitting on shelves collecting dust. There are some things I "stock" but I keep inventory low, buy what I need and use stocked items to fill in when I'm short on something. I've seen companies that keep a large stock in their shop go belly up for different reasons, and the only advantage then is to the vultures who can come in a get good materials for pennies on the five dollar bill.

It's rare that I have to leave a jobsite for materials (as it should be) but I don't agree with never going to the supply house. There are some real traps I've seen other contractors fall into with that approach. For example, the owner and his guys get behind on new materials, tools etc. because they never see anything other than what gets ordered. If they also don't read trade publications, it's easy to get 5-10 years behind fast. Another issue for resi contractors can be awareness of pricing among the employees. I've seen employees recommend high dollar ET8000 series timeclocks when a simple T101 would have been better suited not realizing that the astronomic version costs almost $200 vs. $50 for the mechanical version. Not the best way to make your customers happy...

When the nearest supply house and big box store are both 40+ miles away you have no choice but to have an inventory of common items. What is common depends on exactly what you do frequently. Stocking residential grade switches, and receptacles does not take the same kind of overhead as stocking motor starters and industrial control components to have for service calls. If you can't fix it because you never have the parts (even parts to get by with until you get the right parts) you start losing those calls to someone that can get it done.

 

[cdslotz]

If only it were that simple. You know how many times I have had to bury pipe on a moments notice otherwise it will be covered with conctrete if I come later to do it? Then the supply house doesn't have enough pipe on hand, or worse yet they tell you they have it, so you plan for them to deliver it because it is delivery day, then they bring the wrong thing:rant:

Sounds like you didn't: 1) order enough 2) check the delivery that they sent you what you ordered 3) missed the estimate 4) ordered the pipe the same day expecting them to have everything

None of what you stated is the supply house's fault

 

[Strathead]

Sounds like you didn't: 1) order enough 2) check the delivery that they sent you what you ordered 3) missed the estimate 4) ordered the pipe the same day expecting them to have everything

None of what you stated is the supply house's fault

Wow, I want to either work for your General Contractors, and/or your company. GC's that always wive you proper warning so you can plan ahead and have manpower and material available days in advance! And then a company that has enough time and money to buy extra material so you don't run out, which later requires you to either handle it twice more, back to the shop and back to another job, or throw it away. IMO youe generally either buy to little, or too much conduit and fittings. It is rare to actually buy the right amount. I was taught and pass down, to order less than you need (80-90%) and order the remainder as needed. And that was back when there actually seemed to be profit in the jobs.

 

[renosteinke]

A good counter clerk is worth his weight in gold. The rest are ..... well .... heartburn on a stick.

It's nice when you can go and just ask for some pipe, connectors, and devices ... and know you'll get the right stuff.

When you have to go in and specify 'Acme Mfg # 123-ABC,' you've already lost the battle. It's time for a new supplier. You might as well order from Mcmaster-Carr and have UPS deliver it.

Most of the issues I have had came down to individual people. For example, I've had the following encounters:
1) One guy tried to do it 'in his head,' ... with the result that I often got 2" fittings when I wanted 1/2";
2) Another guy acted like he wanted to retire on every sale; a breaker that usually cost me $70 cost $130 when he handled the paper; and,
3) Another clerk was mighty selective about what was 'available,' with convenient lapses in memory. For some reason, he didn't want to sell me certain items.

Sometimes it's the individual. Other times, the problem lies with the company, or the supplier. End result: I often have to use multiple suppliers to get the parts I need. For example, a recent service change had me getting materials from seven different sources - and price was (generally) not the reason!

 

[Rewire]

I would never trust a supply house to have everything ready the day of the job. We get things delivered well in advnce of the project and keep some items in stock . I try to keep shop inventory to a minimum and rely on the vans to carry most items they need an a day to day basis. If I have a service to do I will have the supply house deliver the stock at least a day before so if anything is amiss I can correct it. Trips to the supply house are just to costly .

 

[readydave8]

Sounds like you didn't: 1) order enough 2) check the delivery that they sent you what you ordered 3) missed the estimate 4) ordered the pipe the same day expecting them to have everything

None of what you stated is the supply house's fault

Counter men at my local supply house would agree with you, its not their fault. I have been told this enough times that I have it memorized.

 

[kwired]

Sounds like you didn't: 1) order enough 2) check the delivery that they sent you what you ordered 3) missed the estimate 4) ordered the pipe the same day expecting them to have everything

None of what you stated is the supply house's fault

Wow, I want to either work for your General Contractors, and/or your company.

Same here.

1) I order enough. Often times more than necessary for a particular job just to make sure I'm not short.

2) when do you think I discover the delivery is wrong?? They deliver to my shop and I am not there most of the time. If I am there when they deliver and order is wrong, I'm not getting what I wanted until next delivery day anyway, unless I go to supply house myself so this statement means absolutely nothing. They will take returns if it was wrong, but does not mean I get what I wanted, when I wanted it.

3) missed estimate is my problem, if I order 10 - XYZ, and get 100 - ABC that is a supply house problem, and is even more frustrating when the invoice even says 10 -XYZ yet they deliver 100 - ABC (it happens a lot)

4) ordering pipe same day and expecting it same day when they told you they have it is my fault if they end up not having it?? I ask if they have it because if they don't I will try a different supplier.

Last winter I needed wire and conduit for burying to irrigation well 1800 feet (paralleled 4/0 aluminum in this instance so 3600 feet of quad - plex plus conduit to put it in) Was last minute notice - we had nice weather last winter and the customer happened to have excavation equipment on hand and wanted to get the excavating done even though we had 4-5 months until it absolutely needed done, he was not as busy at that time of year, the weather was cooperative and he wanted to do this. So I called supply house and asked if this was available, my sales rep says yes. So I drive 45 miles (one way) to go pick it up. Of course my sales rep is out when I get there and the other guys tell me I can't have any of it because virtually all of what looks like is on hand is already sold or on hold for others.

My fault for not ordering soon enough before needed is understandable, and I was prepared for that possibility, but when they tell me yes we have what you need, and I get trailer ready and drive that far only to come home with nothing how is that my fault? I did tell him I was coming down that day to get it on the phone BTW.

 

[jaylectricity]

I would never trust a supply house to have everything ready the day of the job.

I don't expect them to have everything. Just simple items like a no-frills no thrills 200A meter socket, and romex connectors, and fan/lt combos of their major brand.

If they didn't have a 6-gang meter socket ready to go it wouldn't bother me. If they didn't have 14-5 MC cable on hand, it wouldn't bother me. But a 2" weather-tite connector for an overhead? It's not like 200A services are the anomaly. Pretty much everybody around here either sells 100A or 200A services for residential.

 

[kwired]

I don't expect them to have everything. Just simple items like a no-frills no thrills 200A meter socket, and romex connectors, and fan/lt combos of their major brand.

If they didn't have a 6-gang meter socket ready to go it wouldn't bother me. If they didn't have 14-5 MC cable on hand, it wouldn't bother me. But a 2" weather-tite connector for an overhead? It's not like 200A services are the anomaly. Pretty much everybody around here either sells 100A or 200A services for residential.

That is my expectation also. After all they are in the business of supplying electrical items and pretty much nothing else. A home center that also happens to handle electrical items is a little different. I can understand being wiped out by someone that needed something on demand, I have wiped them out of items before, but seems like since being acquired by other companies and having less local control the supply house is not the same place it once was. They would rather have the bulk of the supplies 500 miles away and make you wait for it to arrive at local store on transfer truck that only runs once a week, or hit you hard with shipping if you want them to send it UPS for the next day.

 

[PetrosA]

When the nearest supply house and big box store are both 40+ miles away you have no choice but to have an inventory of common items. What is common depends on exactly what you do frequently. Stocking residential grade switches, and receptacles does not take the same kind of overhead as stocking motor starters and industrial control components to have for service calls. If you can't fix it because you never have the parts (even parts to get by with until you get the right parts) you start losing those calls to someone that can get it done.

I agree with you. With that kind of distance to restock, you have to keep parts on hand with the quality of your customer service probably being the main reason. I left one supplier off of my list by accident, but of all those suppliers (covering a 40 mile radius), it's the only one that stocks any kind of control parts due to their nearness to the Herr's snack food factory. Interestingly, the situation actually gets worse the closer you get to Philadelphia. Many of the local supply houses have closed and - other than Home Depot - you have a 30-40 minute drive through suburbia to get to one from a lot of points on the Main Line (Rt. 30 out of Philly towards Lancaster) and along the other major routes west.

Regarding the JIT system, I guess you could say that's how I run my business. Some weaknesses of JIT are apparent in residential remodeling and service though. A commercial customer is generally accustomed to paying a lot more for repairs than the average homeowner, so even Grainger is an option (they have JIT down to a tee...) but a homeowner is used to seeing the below-cost prices at Home Depot so when they have to wait for a part to come in because your suppliers are also trying to use JIT and only stock one or two of an item, or keep sold product on the self service shelves and you need to start rescheduling visits to finish a repair or job, or have to special order anything remotely unusual, relations can get strained. I placed an order over a month ago for some 24V LED tape lighting from WAC to build a demo kit that STILL hasn't arrived. I've got one customer and an architect waiting to see a demo before making decisions and the delay already cost me the architect's job. Ridiculous.

 

[Sparky555]

I have one supplier that has been good for almost 20 years. What I like about them is 95% of the time I deal with one salesperson. Other suppliers have had 2-4 salespeople quoting different prices. I get quotes by email or phone. Phone calls are followed with an email quote. Any order called in by 4-5pm is shipped to my door by the following 6-7am. I used to burn a lot of time going to two suppliers a few blocks away because I was second in line or the salesperson wanted to talk. The prices are generally good and I never got the shaft. Other suppliers I had to look at every invoice. They also have multiple branches and if they don't have something they will get it from another branch. Good business all around.

 

[kwired]

I have one supplier that has been good for almost 20 years. What I like about them is 95% of the time I deal with one salesperson. Other suppliers have had 2-4 salespeople quoting different prices. I get quotes by email or phone. Phone calls are followed with an email quote. Any order called in by 4-5pm is shipped to my door by the following 6-7am. I used to burn a lot of time going to two suppliers a few blocks away because I was second in line or the salesperson wanted to talk. The prices are generally good and I never got the shaft. Other suppliers I had to look at every invoice. They also have multiple branches and if they don't have something they will get it from another branch. Good business all around.

I used to have one supplier that most of what you said applied, then they were acquired by another company, things started to get just a little bitter at first during the transition period, but now it is mostly sour. My good salesman that I dealt with 95% of the time (that worked there for 25+ years) was fired because they did not want to pay him the rate he was making, items that you could usually depend on being stocked, still are, just not in as large of quantities or at the local branch, main branch used to be in Omaha, and they had daily transfer trucks and items that were backordered were usually there next morning if they were in main branch, now transfer trucks only run twice a week. So you pretty much need to ask for what you want at least three days in advance or you never know what is available. On top of that all the sales people are not all that experienced with electrical equipment, so you never know what they think something is if you call it by name, a catalog number usually helps, but they find ways to mess that up also at times.

 

[Sparky555]

That stinks. I get things online in 3 days.

 

[kwired]

That stinks. I get things online in 3 days.

That is how I feel, if they want to sell things, maybe they should have a better offer than one can get someplace else. Price is not alway everything, but high price and no availability sure does not help sell things, and they are in business of selling and pretty much nothing else. If you sell and provide services then your overall value changes, if you sell only that is all you have and you are in higher level of competition with all others that sell only. I can order almost anything from Grainger and have it next day, it will probably cost more but it is almost automatic I will have it next day.

 

[zbang]

Two of the problems are that parts sales can not be a JIT operation and that the supply houses don't seem to understand what JIT is, anyway. For a full-on JIT system to work, everything is scheduled very closely, so the manufacturer makes the widgets so they ready to go on the truck to the (many links in the distribution chain omitted) who gets it to the end user/installer just before they pick up a widget and install it. Obviously, repair work is not scheduled, and unless you have enough small jobs to make it look like a big one, then effectively installation work is unscheduled.

A well-operated parts supplier would know that they sell, say, 10 of the locally-common meter sockets a month, and would keep a couple on the shelf to fill immediate needs ("elastic storage"). There are automatically reordered to keep a couple on the shelf. I understand that houses like Grainger (and HD/Lowes) this with their stores. Yes, there is a cost to carrying the inventory, but I suspect it also moves more product.

The same thing is true for electronic parts. It's almost impossible to walk into a supplier and buy even common parts now, it all has to be ordered, and those I can order it as well as they can.

 

[kwired]

Two of the problems are that parts sales can not be a JIT operation and that the supply houses don't seem to understand what JIT is, anyway. For a full-on JIT system to work, everything is scheduled very closely, so the manufacturer makes the widgets so they ready to go on the truck to the (many links in the distribution chain omitted) who gets it to the end user/installer just before they pick up a widget and install it. Obviously, repair work is not scheduled, and unless you have enough small jobs to make it look like a big one, then effectively installation work is unscheduled.

A well-operated parts supplier would know that they sell, say, 10 of the locally-common meter sockets a month, and would keep a couple on the shelf to fill immediate needs ("elastic storage"). There are automatically reordered to keep a couple on the shelf. I understand that houses like Grainger (and HD/Lowes) this with their stores. Yes, there is a cost to carrying the inventory, but I suspect it also moves more product.

The same thing is true for electronic parts. It's almost impossible to walk into a supplier and buy even common parts now, it all has to be ordered, and those I can order it as well as they can.

And this makes sense for HD/Lowes that does not specialize in electrical, but an electrical supply house? The items that are not big sellers are understandable to some degree, when you want to pick up a couple hundred feet of raceway and they don't have any is just plain stupid. If you want a couple thousand feet of raceway - I can possibly understand them wanting advance notice.

 

[ramsy]

Returns are another consideration between online retailers, and over-the-counter suppliers. A supplier's efficiency at returns can level imperfections in an otherwise impractical JIT inventory system, and keep excess inventory out of employee hands.

Employees that keep side jobs trivial may be too valuable to punish, but like union shops that prohibit cell phones, the real problem occurs when Journeymen run side-work businesses from their phones, on your clock.

Shops that mix inventory with employees are subsidizing sidework. Weekend-warrior employees make cash under your table; often with your fungible wire, raceway, fittings, and common outlet devices.

Those wanting to implement material returns may not be able to with online, or remotely located suppliers.

 

[kwired]

Returns are another consideration between online retailers, and over-the-counter suppliers. A supplier's efficiency at returns can level imperfections in an otherwise impractical JIT inventory system, and keep excess inventory out of employee hands.

Employees that keep side jobs trivial may be too valuable to punish, but like union shops that prohibit cell phones, the real problem occurs when Journeymen run side-work businesses from their phones, on your clock.

Shops that mix inventory with employees are subsidizing sidework. Weekend-warrior employees make cash under your table; often with your fungible wire, raceway, fittings, and common outlet devices.

Those wanting to implement material returns may not be able to with online, or remotely located suppliers.

The problem with employees that take your inventory for their own side jobs is that somehow they have been taught it is ok to do that. I don't care what kind of business you work for that is stealing. Even if I had a boss that acted like it was OK to do that, I would feel guilty. Use of tools or equipment might be ok, but use of consumables or things that do not get returned with out paying for them is just wrong. Use of shop, and tools for personal reasons may be acceptable to some employers, if used for profit on side that is generally not acceptable.

This practice becomes a big problem for guys that work for municipalities. Say a guy used to work for a mechanic and boss didn't care if he worked on his own car after hours in the shop. Now he gets a job as a mechanic for the city shop, but use of that shop is different than it was before. That shop really belongs to the taxpayers, and if he can use it for personal reasons then everyone in the city should be able to use it for personal reasons.