If you were an Inspector, Would you permit this install?

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stickboy1375 said:
I dont see in the code where you have to actually notch the wood.
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Me neither!:-?
The wires do have to be protected though. They are not protected where they protrude out from behind the plates. (The wires don't get any further away from dangerous screws/nails.)
Protecting the wire is not only required where there is a stud. They must be protected everywhere.
 
My code book is out in the truck but I know for sure you can not run wires on the surface of studs. If you run wire on the bottom of joist it has to be at least a #6 . They need to take that s*&% apart and start over. What a lot of work that had to be do drill all those holes in those nail plates. Just when you think you've seen it all...:D
 
Every beam and every stud in 3 apartments have the kick plates installed as you can see.
My concern is the kick plates in regards to the contact with the cables.
When the sheetrock is installed, it will put pressure on the kickplates which may cause damage to the cables. The kickplates as you can see are being displaced from the framing members by the cables, there is no other means by which the kickplates will be held away from the NM cables.

This is not the work of a DIYer, it is the work of a licensed electrician.
I can tell you he was extremely peeved by my not passing his work. He told me he was going to contest my decision. I told him that was fine and provided him with the procedure to do so.
Then I took my camera out to take the photos. He was anoyed with that and asked what I was going to do with the photos. I told him I would present the building department with copies. That is when he decided to go ahead and make the changes.
The entire time I discussed this with him (and he was yelling at me), I did not raise my voice. I just took pictures and I wrote info down on paper. That quieted him down quite quickly.

"The power of the Picture & Pen". ;) :cool:
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
Then I took my camera out to take the photos. He was anoyed with that and asked what I was going to do with the photos. I told him I would present the building department with copies. That is when he decided to go ahead and make the changes.
The entire time I discussed this with him (and he was yelling at me), I did not raise my voice. I just took pictures and I wrote info down on paper. That quieted him down quite quickly.

"The power of the Picture & Pen". ;) :cool:
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I think you handled that quite nice.

Would it be inappropriate in your position to direct him to this thread to witness what the power of the picture and the pen means and to see some other opinions on the matter?
 
These pictures remind me of a job I was on, it was an existing basement and the electrical was ran on the bottom of the joist, they furred the ceiling down 5/8's of an inch, then installed Sheetrock, it obliviously met code, but you should have seen the damage when the A/C crew showed up and screwed up all their ductwork to the ceiling... they missed the furring strips... :rolleyes:
 
Nail plates

Nail plates

Are FHA plates rated as supports for cables? Did they use the cables to form the plates. Did they not have a drill to make holes with?

When you buy a box of staples they state on the outside and in their literature that they are suitable for the support for of NM and MC cables, etc. Does a box of plates or it's lit state that?:confused:
 
wow I guess that job really went to the lowest bidder, or maybe the EC is giving one of his guys a shot at running a truck or maybe the owner is trying to do the work himself.... I love that the person didnt even bother moving the nail from under the nail plate.... "just awfull"
 
i think my blood pressure just went up 50 points, it's frustrating but a fact of life that this is every where but usually done by home owner that i get to either fix or have to deal with. the journeyman must have been on the other floor with the drill, or just didn't have a drill. this install clearly could't have saved time originally, and will definately take more the second time around. live and learn take pride in your work, made in the U.S.A :mad:

sorry i feel better now, good job inspector:)
 
Chamuit said:
Are FHA plates rated as supports for cables? Did they use the cables to form the plates. Did they not have a drill to make holes with?

When you buy a box of staples they state on the outside and in their literature that they are suitable for the support for of NM and MC cables, etc. Does a box of plates or it's lit state that?:confused:
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My thoughts also,do the nail plates satisfy the support within 12" as stated in 334.30?
 
Pierre,

I just read through this thread, having not seen it until now.

With your indulgence, I will carry the opposing view.

What citation(s) did you use to reject the two installations you show in the OP photos?

I've done a lot of drywall over lathe jobs in my time, and I'm prepared to state one of this Forum's maxims, "What the NEC doesn't prohibit, is allowed."

We allow a string of holes in joists or studs to "support" NM; a nail plate over a cable is very similar.

The remaining lathe acts a firring. Between the firring, I'd argue that there is a wide notch. If the nailplate is standing proud of the lathe, then the drywall will add a squeeze to the nailplate, but otherwise, the only squeeze will be on over-tightened nailplate fasteners. A simple tug on the NM at a nailplate will indicate over-tightening.

The language requires protection only at the "framing members", so the cripple nailed between two joists in the one photo, arguably, isn't required to be nailplated. It certainly doesn't require physical protection "everywhere". . . as I recall said earlier.

OK.

Forum toggle: [Flame ON]

:D
 
Upon further review the wall pic the cripple stud is not structural so how about just notching and plating the correct way. If you look down the wall he drilled a 12 wire on the plaster edge of the adjascent apartment.
The problem with a building this old is that you dont want to notch anything structural because it is usually compromised already.
 
Unless you are going to fail every other installation that does something ugly but servicable (and that is most NM installations) I don't see the "workmanship" thing being legitimate.

I can't come up with anything in the NEC offhand that it actually violates.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
My concern is the kick plates in regards to the contact with the cables.
When the sheetrock is installed, it will put pressure on the kickplates which may cause damage to the cables. The kickplates as you can see are being displaced from the framing members by the cables, there is no other means by which the kickplates will be held away from the NM cables. ;) :cool:
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A simple solution would be to create a notch useing a couple of pieces of old lath on each side of where the NM is run and that ways they could tighten the nail guards down without damaging the cable. Lath is a little over a 1/4" deep and that would create a notch deep enough . :smile: :smile:
 
Lath and Plaster

Lath and Plaster

Pierre C Belarge said:
If you were to inspect this installation, would you permit this installation?
Remember to cite a code section(s) for the violation - or the permission to install (if there is a section that permits this type of install).

KickPlate-improperUse.jpg





KickPlate-improperUse2.jpg




Backround:
The building is very, very old. There was a fire and the building department is requiring a rewire of the apartments. Some of the framing is 2x4s on the flat.
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Maybe, just maybe article 110.3 (B) nail plates not installed as per the listing. 110.12 probably could be overlooked do to the nature of it being an old establishment. I.M.H.O. It looks alot like a great place for a D-9 or D-12 and start from scratch.:D
 
Inspectorcliff said:
article 110.3 (B) nail plates not installed as per the listing.
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What is the language in the nailplate listing that is not being complied with?
 
Are these nail plates being used as support/securing fittings designed and installed so as to not damage the cable??

Are these nail plates similar to cable ties, staples, straps or hangers ?

I'd say it is being used as a strap but designed as a plate..... as in flat
there are many types of straps and even a bonafide strap may not be appropriate for securing a NM cable .
The nail plates in these parts have an edge that are quite sharp ,... could skin a cat with them no problem.

If the pull test that was mentioned allowed fairly free movement ,..would the cable be secure??
 
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