If you were an Inspector, Would you permit this install?

[220/221]

I'd find a way to make them remove the wood lathe, then I'd deal with the other issues.

 

[peter d]

I'd find a way to make them remove the wood lathe, then I'd deal with the other issues.

Here it's very common to remove the plaster without removing the lathe and sheetrock right over it. I've also done jobs where nothing was removed and they sheetrocked right over the lath and plaster. It was nice because I could make holes in the old wall wherever I needed them.

 

[al hildenbrand]

It was nice because I could make holes in the old wall wherever I needed them.

Yes, exactly.

That's when I use the hammer to make the holes.

The sheetrocker (most of the time, not the carpenter) will use some of the debris of my holes and firr two lathe strips over the framing I've smashed the lath off of, just before screwing down the new drywall.

Lots of box extensions in those jobs.

 

[peter d]

Lots of box extensions in those jobs.

Since the lathe and plaster was being left in place, I removed the plaster where I needed a box location, cut an opening with the lath square with the stud, and then used the box pictured below, mounted to a small scrap of plywood equivalent to the thickness of the old plaster (it varied but generally 3/8-1/2"). Quite labor intensive, and it would have been a great application for the adjust-a-box.

Thankfully I had someone else (a laborer) make most of the holes for me with an angle grinder and a sawzal.

 

[iwire]

Pete how do you expect to contain the electrons with a plastic box? :wink:


Next your gona tell me you run NM to this box.....

 

[peter d]

Next your gona tell me you run NM to this box.....

Well, I didn't really want to mention it, because I would be so ashamed, but yeah, I did use NM. I know, it should have been RMC and an FS box, right?

 

[iwire]

I know, it should have been RMC and an FS box, right?

No less. :smile:

 

[mivey]

I see a definition of groove. :roll:

Drywall over lathe on studs is drywall over a carpenter assembled grooved surface. Take out a lathe, or a couple lathe, and the surface is still grooved. Some of the grooves just got wider.

I'll bet this Table E3702.1 has absolutely no requirement that the 0.0625 inch steel plate or sleeve extend over all the groove, 'cause the groove's got nothing to do with the physical protection of the NM-B.

Here, think of a sleeve. An EMT sleeve. If the studs are firred out so a stud face mounted run of EMT can be covered by drywall without bulges, do we think the stud has to be grooved and the EMT set inside the groove for the wires inside the EMT to be physically protected?

The break in the firring is the groove.

So my shorthand doesn't add any confusion, here is the full text for that section of the table:

"Where installed in grooves, to be covered by wallboard, siding, paneling, carpeting, or similar finish, wiring methods shall be protected by 0.0625-inch-thick steel plate, sleeve, or equivalent or by not less than 1.25-inch free space for the full length of the groove in which the cable or raceway is installed."

I did not see a definition of "groove".

 

[peter d]

No less. :smile:

Maybe on the next job.

 

[peter d]

Letting Romex rest on the sheet metal is asking for trouble in the future (1 yr, 5yrs,30 yrs +).

Yes, because that's so much different than NM cable being clamped into a 2-screw die cast connector, right? :roll:

 

[iwire]

Yes, because that's so much different than NM cable being clamped into a 2-screw die cast connector, right? :roll:

Or the same NM resting on the much smaller metal staple.

 

[mivey]

for the full length of the groove in which the cable or raceway is installed."

This is what I think Al was referring to.

 

[peter d]

Or the same NM resting on the much smaller metal staple.

Or the clamps inside a metal old work box...we could go on and on...

 

[stickboy1375]

Or the clamps inside a metal old work box...we could go on and on...

Thats exactly why I dont use metal boxes with NM...

 

[peter d]

Thats exactly why I dont use metal boxes with NM...

Yes, that's extremely dangerous...

 

[stickboy1375]

Yes, that's extremely dangerous...

I know, I also only use these on my panels...

This makes it super duper safe.

 

[peter d]

This makes it super duper safe.

I think some guys here would have a heart attack if they saw some of our commercial steel and mortar buildings wired with NM cable here in New England. NM cable resting on trusses.....they oughta condemn those building for having that. :roll:

 

[mivey]

I know, I also only use these on my panels...

This makes it super duper safe.

MLO? Where are those grounds wires going?

[edit: {gasp} metal staples]

 

[peter d]

[edit: {gasp} metal staples]

As much as I dislike uninsulated metal staples used with NM cable, they are code compliant.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Quite labor intensive, and it would have been a great application for the adjust-a-box.

A number of the jobs that I've done that have been rock over plaster have had a number of existing openings that remain and are extended to the new wall surface.

As for the new boxes, there are all kinds of solutions. I like the adjust-a-box as well, for the accuracy of the end results.