In supported NM: Is this "ok" in California.

tortuga said:
I think in Wisconsin where your from all residential electrical work is supposed to be performed by licensed electricians no matter what.
California last I checked and this was a few years ago, they have one of a kind dual system, where they let general contractors "General B" pull all the permits for a home and use their employees to do electrical with no licensing or certifications whatsoever and on the other hand the state regulates EC's to death requiring all their employees to be 'certified' or apprentices.
A builder can use a in house crew to do plumbing, hvac, electrical, roofing, solar you name it.
Electrical contractors that just specialize in electrical work are called a "C10" and are tightly regulated.
Its called the "General B loophole" is common on large developments like condo/town homes and results in comical looking romex jobs like you see.
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California,, enough said!
 
ramsy said:
What 10 amp wire are you talking about?

How do you figure 10 amp circuit breakers?

Get with the program, 16/2 available now is half the cost of 14/2, rated 75C, and 300v.

We all know as more disastrous GC's find this crap, CA combination inspectors will green tag it without looking twice.
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Oh, OK.

You are saying the branch circuits for buildings around you are being wired with CL2, CL3 low voltage cable (speaker wire). Sure, I believe that.

16 AWG building wire and 10 amp breakers are now part of the NEC.
 
curt swartz said:
You are saying the branch circuits for buildings around you are being wired with CL2, CL3 low voltage cable (speaker wire). Sure, I believe that.

16 AWG building wire and 10 amp breakers are now part of the NEC.
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I'm saying General Contractor's (GC) don't care, since laborers doing electrical use the cheapest-material choice, or buy it on Amazon.

I'm saying 16-Awg building wire will be a disaster in California, with GC laborers doing electrical.

Real Electrical Contractors (EC) will become whistleblowers, if not pulling permits for developers, sacrificial RMO's, or GC whipping boys.
 
16/2. I recently found a piece of 10/2 copper clad the first time I have ever seen it. It breaks if you look at it. Don't know if the alloy has changed but I wouldn't use it. I was practicing cutting and stripping it and a tiny nick will cause it to break when bent.
 
pipe_bender said:
Good luck getting homeowners insurance with any kind of aluminum branch circuit wring.
Good luck getting home insurance at all in some places.
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The new CCA "copper clad aluminum" was just approved by the NEC standards council at the end of August 2025,
for residential use, on 10 amp breakers. Inspectors and insurance agents will have to learn what's "new" aluminum, and what's old aluminum.

I for one feel they screwed up royally by not mandating much more clear and evident markings for the new stuff: at a glance and on the wire fine print.
 
It is definitely a point of contention at conferences lol. Big copper doesn't like it and inspectors are wary of it.

I am a little worried about splices / terminations and voltage drop. I am also unsure about the quality of it. Like if it is bend incorrectly, shoved into a box, does it just form back or do you run the risk of damaging the copper shell.
 
brycenesbitt said:
insurance agents will have to learn what's "new" aluminum, and what's old aluminum.
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No home insurance usually = no mortgage.
More like contractors and builders are having to learn what insurance companies will cover.
The big insurance companies could care less what garbage the NEC approves.
 
pipe_bender said:
No home insurance usually = no mortgage.
More like contractors and builders are having to learn what insurance companies will cover.
The big insurance companies could care less what garbage the NEC approves.
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Have you ever seen a policy that prohibited CCA. Ive never

FPE and zinco I've seen
Al not pigtailed with alumicons I've seen
Never seen CCA cost more.
 
Elect117 said:
voltage drop
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I'm not seeing that as an issue for #12 and #10 CCA as substitutes for #14 and #12 Cu, respectively:

I believe it has been mentioned on this forum that 10% of the cross-sectional area of the CCA is copper. I understand aluminum has 61% of the conductivity of copper. So compared to 100% Al, CCA would have (0.1+0.9*61%)/61% = 106.4% of the conductivity, or 94% of the resistivity.

Then comparing just the resistance values from Chapter 9 Table 9 of the NEC, and using the ohms / km figures, #14 Cu is 10.2, while #12 CCA would be 94% * 10.5 = 9.9. Likewise #12 Cu is 6.6, and #10 CCA is 94% * 6.6 = 6.2

So CCA is slightly better as far as voltage drop.

Cheers, Wayne
 
letgomywago said:
Have you ever seen a policy that prohibited CCA. Ive never

FPE and zinco I've seen
Al not pigtailed with alumicons I've seen
Never seen CCA cost more.
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I was told by my State Farm agent that copper-aluminum alloy is considered the same as straight aluminum when I inquired about this back in may.
 
brycenesbitt said:
And what would he say about multi-strand aluminum sub-panel feeders?
Insurance likes simple answers in a complex world.
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Anyone that has had to deal with it will tell you its a huge pain. A relative in south NJ had her insurance carrier refuse to renew her policies (she owns three homes) one was because aluminum wiring, the other was because of a pool with a diving board and I cant remember the 3rd homes issue.
Caused her a ton of stress.
She had asked me to replace it, over 2hr drive no thanks!. I told her to call a local guy or switch insurance carriers..
She did find a new carrier and was paying 50% more and her policy excludes damage caused by knob and tube or aluminum wiring. The house with the pool had to get the diving board removed and a new fence.
Mothers later I was down there for a get-together, she was talking about it again, so I could not resist going to the basement to see what this bad aluminum was, turned out it was just one dryer circuit.
I had to go out to the store and a home depot was right there on a whim I bought what I needed, then proceeded to replace the one aluminum branch circuit in her home all before dinner.
 
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