Inpector Logic?

[ryanpickett2003]

I Had an inspector last week fail a rough inspection because I didn't have my grounds and neutrals termainated in the panel. When I questioned the inspector, she told me that was when they made sure the panel was OK to have the panel energized. I also asked if they checked the panel during the meter set inspection, and her anwser was no, she didn't need to after she had checked the grounds and neutrals.
I've been doing commercial and residential electrical work for more than 15 years and never had any inspector fail me for this. Also, if I were inspecting, I would want to check the entire panel and the termainations, not just some of them. But, I'm not an inspector! I was wondering if anyone else does this and if some of the inspectors here require this? Your thoughts and comments will be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[iwire]

Grounds and neutrals made up at rough.

 

[Hv&Lv]

I have always had to make up grounds and neutrals at rough. It makes sense, I personally think the grounds and neutrals are much more important than the hot connections.

 

[augie47]

I may be "odd man out", but on Rough-In, my main concern is items I can't see on Final.
The only connections I require are the ones in boxes that will have devices or covers at Final. If the panel is made up, fine, but if not I always check before power.

 

[infinity]

I may be "odd man out", but on Rough-In, my main concern is items I can't see on Final.
The only connections I require are the ones in boxes that will have devices or covers at Final. If the panel is made up, fine, but if not I always check before power.

I agree, why should the panel keep them from closing walls and ceilings when it can be inspected at any time.

 

[Hv&Lv]

I agree, why should the panel keep them from closing walls and ceilings when it can be inspected at any time.

Sometimes the inspectors here don't remove the panel cover at final. It makes it easier on them if they have already looked at all my neutrals and if they are happy, I am too. On mobile homes, yes they will to ohm feeders, but not on some new homes.

Auggie stated he required the boxes that will have devices or covers to have the neutrals and grounds made up. How is a panel cover any different from a box or device cover? All panel covers, box covers, and device covers can be removed and inspected during final following that line of logic.

 

[Ponchik]

Locally it varies.

Most do not require G & N to be made up at panel. However, most do require G made up in the boxes at the rough inspection.

 

[mjf]

I wonder if she looked in every single :slapheadutlet to confirm that your grounds were tied together.

 

[infinity]

Sometimes the inspectors here don't remove the panel cover at final. It makes it easier on them if they have already looked at all my neutrals and if they are happy, I am too. On mobile homes, yes they will to ohm feeders, but not on some new homes.

Auggie stated he required the boxes that will have devices or covers to have the neutrals and grounds made up. How is a panel cover any different from a box or device cover? All panel covers, box covers, and device covers can be removed and inspected during final following that line of logic.

Still, were talking about a rough inspection which is more about having the walls and ceiling ready so that they can be closed up. IMO requiring only EGC's and neutrals on the panel to be tied in and nothing else seems rather silly for a wall and ceiling inspection. Also I cannot see doing a final without removing the panel cover unless the service was complete and fully inspected on the rough.

 

[iwire]

I don't see what is silly about it when they are not planning on pulling covers at final which in my area is typical.

Again it is no more or no less silly then requiring it of switch and outlet boxes.

 

[ceb58]

With all of the AFCI's you may as well go ahead and make the panel up if they want to see the neutrals landed.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Still, were talking about a rough inspection which is more about having the walls and ceiling ready so that they can be closed up. IMO requiring only EGC's and neutrals on the panel to be tied in and nothing else seems rather silly for a wall and ceiling inspection. Also I cannot see doing a final without removing the panel cover unless the service was complete and fully inspected on the rough.

The grounds and neutrals need to be made up in the panel and all the boxes is what I meant, not just the panel alone.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I look at the panel at final, but I also don't release power, usually, until after final.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I don't see what is silly about it when they are not planning on pulling covers at final which in my area is typical.

Again it is no more or no less silly then requiring it of switch and outlet boxes.

Silly, because the inspector is only doing half a job.
not checking for AFCI , handle ties on MWBC's ..........
What is the answer for alll those loose nuetrals that will be landed on AFCI or GFCI breakers?
Do you think I am going to install breakers at rough. NO and never!!!

 

[HoosierSparky]

Rough & Final

Rough & Final

I alway's checked for correct wire sizes to baths & kitchens, grounds tied at random boxes. I wasn't too concerned with panels until a request for temporary service activation or final. At finals I always selected 2-3 random switch locations to have covers removed to verify grounds attached to switch yokes. If I found one not connected, it was a good indicator that others were missed and I would fail the inspection until corrections were made. I would then have different locations opened on subsequent inspections.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I alway's checked for correct wire sizes to baths & kitchens, grounds tied at random boxes. I wasn't too concerned with panels until a request for temporary service activation or final. At finals I always selected 2-3 random switch locations to have covers removed to verify grounds attached to switch yokes. If I found one not connected, it was a good indicator that others were missed and I would fail the inspection until corrections were made. I would then have different locations opened on subsequent inspections.

:thumbsup: Right there with you.

 

[wirebender]

I alway's checked for correct wire sizes to baths & kitchens, grounds tied at random boxes. I wasn't too concerned with panels until a request for temporary service activation or final. At finals I always selected 2-3 random switch locations to have covers removed to verify grounds attached to switch yokes. If I found one not connected, it was a good indicator that others were missed and I would fail the inspection until corrections were made. I would then have different locations opened on subsequent inspections.

:thumbsup: Right there with you.

Aw, c'mon, y'all don't think the electrician would just fix the ones he thought you were gonna look at, do ya? :angel:

 

[cowboyjwc]

Aw, c'mon, y'all don't think the electrician would just fix the ones he thought you were gonna look at, do ya? :angel:

Had a guy putting in 20 parking lot lights, at final I told him to go out and open any 6. When I checked 4 of the 6 that he opened weren't bonded. He then says, "so are we good?" I said "I only had you open 6 of 20 and four of those were wrong. Wanna guess how many you're opening up when I come back?"

 

[wirebender]

Had a guy putting in 20 parking lot lights, at final I told him to go out and open any 6. When I checked 4 of the 6 that he opened weren't bonded. He then says, "so are we good?" I said "I only had you open 6 of 20 and four of those were wrong. Wanna guess how many you're opening up when I come back?"

He must have forgotten what 6 were bonded. :lol:

 

[Ponchik]

OP,

Have you asked the inspector about his logic? as to why he failed your rough wall/ceiling inspection because the grounds and neutrals were not made up in the panel?