Inpector Logic?

Location
Ny
I don't see what is silly about it when they are not planning on pulling covers at final which in my area is typical.

Again it is no more or no less silly then requiring it of switch and outlet boxes.
It's silly because there is no reason to open every device box back up to inspect, that could be inspected during rough. But the panel should be opened during final for inspection, and at that time the neutrals and EGC's can be inspected as well.
 

edward

Senior Member
It's silly because there is no reason to open every device box back up to inspect, that could be inspected during rough. But the panel should be opened during final for inspection, and at that time the neutrals and EGC's can be inspected as well.
During the rough inspection you don't have your devices installed. So, at the final inspectors do ask for the plates to be removed in order to see the bonding of the devices.

I always install all of the cover plates and let the inspector decide whichever ones he wants to remove or inspect.
 
Location
Ny
During the rough inspection you don't have your devices installed. So, at the final inspectors do ask for the plates to be removed in order to see the bonding of the devices.

I always install all of the cover plates and let the inspector decide whichever ones he wants to remove or inspect.
As does everyone.

All inspections I have seen had the inspector ask for the panel cover to be removed so it could be inspected.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I look at the panel at final, but I also don't release power, usually, until after final.
The problem we have here is we all work on diffrent type of projects but for us we have permant power on long before final inspections in almost all cases.

We will get a service inpection when we want it and the inspector will tell the power company to make it hot.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Silly, because the inspector is only doing half a job.
not checking for AFCI , handle ties on MWBC's ..........
What is the answer for alll those loose nuetrals that will be landed on AFCI or GFCI breakers?
Do you think I am going to install breakers at rough. NO and never!!!
Again, the problem we have here is we all work on diffrent type of projects but for us we have permant power on long before final inspections in almost all cases.

We will have installed breakers and be live long before the final, we have to be in order for the other trades to do their work.
 
Again, the problem we have here is we all work on diffrent type of projects but for us we have permant power on long before final inspections in almost all cases.

We will have installed breakers and be live long before the final, we have to be in order for the other trades to do their work.
You're right about different types of projects and different scenario's.

Just did a whole house rewire.

ripped out everything but the service(to be upgraded), the furnace circuit and a circuit powering a duplex receptacle in the unfinished basement.

got my rough-in insp the other day with all my boxes all made up and my homeruns ty-wrapped together hanging down to the floor where the new panel will go when I install it. No problem.

Can't see why the OP's inspector failed him. Insp needed to make a "note to self" to check the panel out on final.
 
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Strathead

Senior Member
Inspectors are human. Humans want what they want. What I didn't see in this story is what impact this had on the OP. To me, that is what would be important here. If I had to pay for a failed inspection, or my GC couldn't start rocking the walls, then I might take issue, otherwise who cares. Most inspectors and jurisdictions I have dealt with have their own idiosynchrasies. You learn to work with them. If to OP's work was up to par (I do assume it was) then the most likely way I would see this one go is:

Inspector; "Sorry you need to have your neutrals and grounds made up before I pass rough walls."
Electrician; "In the walls?"
Inspector; "No, walls and panels."
Electrician; " Sorry, I wasn't aware. They didn't ask that in Timbuck Three jurisdiction. The GC is looking to start sheetrocking tomorrow. Is there any way he can start that and I will get right on making up boxes? I did make sure the conduit and MC was strapped properly for sheetrock installation."
Inspector; "Go ahead, I will make a note to swing by tomorrow and make a quick check that the grounds are made up."
Electrician to his Journeymen; " Get on it. I don;t want to find one box that is wrong. We got a pass on this one."

The End.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I agree rough in inspection is for what can't be seen later.

I have had rough in inspections with no service yet in place to connect things to or to inspect. I have never had an inspector that wants to see every connection. Random removal of wall plates happens sometimes. If they find nothing wrong they kind of figure you know what you are doing. If they find several mistakes with random cover removal then they should suspect someone did the work that did not know what they were doing and possibly will want to see more than just a few random ones.

How does one inspect AFCI application? Best idea I have seen is to turn off all the AFCI breakers and go around the house turning on lights and testing receptacles. Any outlet required to be on an AFCI had better not be working if all AFCI's are off. They still just do some random checking though as long as they don't find anything wrong.
 

pete m.

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
I have had rough in inspections with no service yet in place to connect things to or to inspect. I have never had an inspector that wants to see every connection. Random removal of wall plates happens sometimes. If they find nothing wrong they kind of figure you know what you are doing. If they find several mistakes with random cover removal then they should suspect someone did the work that did not know what they were doing and possibly will want to see more than just a few random ones.
Pretty standard practice around here.

How does one inspect AFCI application? Best idea I have seen is to turn off all the AFCI breakers and go around the house turning on lights and testing receptacles. Any outlet required to be on an AFCI had better not be working if all AFCI's are off. They still just do some random checking though as long as they don't find anything wrong.
I will push the test button on the AFCI's after walking the house and checking receptacles and such and confirm that power is off where it needs to be.

Pete
 

Fliz

Member
Location
San Francisco
The only sense it makes is that whatever you do after the grounds and neutrals are landed will be hard to change later. Kind of like how they make sure that all the metal boxes and enclosures are grounded during rough, because they won't be able to see it easily when a devise is installed. She should still check the panel at final though, because what you do after the grounds and neutrals can contain code violations. She is being ultra strict or fairly dumb.
 

James S.

Senior Member
Location
Mesa, Arizona
I have never heard of an inspector wanting this, however it is common practice to land the grounds and neutrals here. It didn't used to be that way and I think I found out why it changed a few years ago while I was talking to one of my many superiors (bosses boss) at the company that I used to work for and this is what he told me.
They had a trim guy get hurt and wound up on permanent disability when he went to trim out the panel. It happened on a house with an all in one type panel and apparently when the rough guys stuffed all the wires in the panel and closed it up they didn't notice that the gas bond slipped into the meter side of the panel. Nobody noticed that it was there when the wires were pulled or fired up. The meter was set dead but the wires were live and so when the unlucky guy grabbed the wires he got lit up.
Landing the grounds and neutrals would have prevented this from happening. I didn't work for that company at the time but the company that I DID work for started doing that around the same time that the accident happened.
 

jiggawatt79

Member
Location
New Mexico
I Had an inspector last week fail a rough inspection because I didn't have my grounds and neutrals termainated in the panel. When I questioned the inspector, she told me that was when they made sure the panel was OK to have the panel energized. I also asked if they checked the panel during the meter set inspection, and her anwser was no, she didn't need to after she had checked the grounds and neutrals.
I've been doing commercial and residential electrical work for more than 15 years and never had any inspector fail me for this. Also, if I were inspecting, I would want to check the entire panel and the termainations, not just some of them. But, I'm not an inspector! I was wondering if anyone else does this and if some of the inspectors here require this? Your thoughts and comments will be appreciated.

Thanks.

I have always had the inspectors require this.
 

Stevareno

Senior Member
Location
Dallas, TX
Inspectors here require grounds and neutrals made up (pigtailed) in device boxes for a wall rough, but not the panel.
The panel gets a separate inspection and grounds and neutrals have to be made up at that time if present at the time of inspection. (Who here hasn't cheated and added circuits after an inspection? :angel: )
I do run across some inspectors who insist on seeing the panel at the final inspection. Usually just to check for grouping and that there are no wires doubled up on breakers.
 
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