Inspection and UL Listing

[Jim W in Tampa]

What other rules have I been missing out on?

Pay day is friday , s--- runs down hill

 

[SAC]

The thing that I don't understand is, what section of the NEC mandates that the customer's equipment be listed?

I'm curious about this, as well...

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

In the 2005 NEC, the word listed, is mentioned 1116 times. Depending on the equipment being referenced in the NEC, there may be no need for listed equipment.


In NYS, the state code books require that all equipment being installed is to be listed. I do not know how that is even possible, but that is what is written.

 

[gndrod]

Weird question....

Weird question....

Is it possible to setup a cord and cap interface to get the final?

 

[cowboyjwc]

What other rules have I been missing out on?

#1. "Almost done" is not the same as "done".
#2. If you needed a ladder to install it, I probably need a ladder to inspect it.
#3. Saying you don't have tools with you doesn't mean it won't get opened, it just means I'll have to walk out to my truck and get my tools and we'll be opening a lot more.
#4. "I ran out of ______," is not a good excuse.
#5. I never get to say, "I'm to busy to do your inspection", so you shouldn't be to busy to be there (depending on the inspection).
#6. I know, we're the only ones calling that. (See #4).
#7. I love a good argument, let's just make sure that we both have something to back it up with. (Paper work, code book, etc.)
#8. No matter how far over my head you go, I am the only person in our city with my experiance, and I will eventualy be asked my opinion or side. I can always back it up. (See #7)
#9. A phone call can save a lot of headache later. If I don't know the answer, I will find the answer as quickly as I can for you.



Before anyone jumps all over me, I added the smiley faces so you would all know that this is all in fun.

 

[Karl H]

In the 2005 NEC, the word listed, is mentioned 1116 times. Depending on the equipment being referenced in the NEC, there may be no need for listed equipment.


In NYS, the state code books require that all equipment being installed is to be listed. I do not know how that is even possible, but that is what is written.

Please tell me you didn't spend a weekend counting how many times
the word "Listed" appears in the NEC. :grin:

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Please tell me you didn't spend a weekend counting how many times
the word "Listed" appears in the NEC. :grin:

Karl
I am a speed reader, I can get through the entire code book in less than 1/2 hour.








If you do a search online for any word, it will list how many times that word is found in the NEC.

 

[hurk27]

This has always been a grudge for me, I have always understood that the interpretation of 90.7 was that the "equipment" as stated in it, was the equipment of what we install to supply the end load but not the end load it's self, if this was not true then where would it stop, everything that is connected to the electrical system would have to be listed. some how the interpretation has evolved over the years to include the end load, but it seems that it is a pick and chose at which end load needs to be listed. I wish NFPA would clarify this.

90.7 Examination of Equipment for Safety.
For specific items of equipment and materials referred to in this Code, examinations for safety made under standard conditions provide a basis for approval where the record is made generally available through promulgation by organizations properly equipped and qualified for experimental testing, inspections of the run of goods at factories, and service-value determination through field inspections. This avoids the necessity for repetition of examinations by different examiners, frequently with inadequate facilities for such work, and the confusion that would result from conflicting reports on the suitability of devices and materials examined for a given purpose.

If we were to follow the above wording in red per verbatim, then any manufactured equipment as a whole, not referred to in the NEC would not require a listing, the NEC does not list air compressor's, ice cream machines, fabric weaving machines, cupolas for melting iron, etc... it doesn't mention computers, fax machines, typewriters, Etc.... so you see the pick and chose fashion that has evolved?

Saying just don't hook it up just doesn't make sense. how about grandfather laws, for old equipment, I know of many old machining tools that were built back in the 40's that wasn't listed, are we to say they are now illegal? well article 9 section 21 of the US Constitution would have something to say about that.

I'm not saying that there is equipment that doesn't need to be listed, but if it is a manufactured item that is not part of the supplying electrical system, it shouldn't be a requirement upon us to make sure it is listed, just connected in a code compliant method.

Ok enough of my steaming off

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

#1. "Almost done" is not the same as "done".
#2. If you needed a ladder to install it, I probably need a ladder to inspect it.
#3. Saying you don't have tools with you doesn't mean it won't get opened, it just means I'll have to walk out to my truck and get my tools and we'll be opening a lot more.
#4. "I ran out of ______," is not a good excuse.
#5. I never get to say, "I'm to busy to do your inspection", so you shouldn't be to busy to be there (depending on the inspection).
#6. I know, we're the only ones calling that. (See #4).
#7. I love a good argument, let's just make sure that we both have something to back it up with. (Paper work, code book, etc.)
#8. No matter how far over my head you go, I am the only person in our city with my experiance, and I will eventualy be asked my opinion or side. I can always back it up. (See #7)
#9. A phone call can save a lot of headache later. If I don't know the answer, I will find the answer as quickly as I can for you.



Before anyone jumps all over me, I added the smiley faces so you would all know that this is all in fun.

I wish all inspectors acted this way. No bull ,just judge on what is code or not. Do thank the many that didnt push it to max but fine if they do. Always prefer to meet the inspector on site. Never out to try and slide anything past the inspector. Either i am to code or not. If not then i fix and learn.

 

[SAC]

In the 2005 NEC, the word listed, is mentioned 1116 times. Depending on the equipment being referenced in the NEC, there may be no need for listed equipment.


In NYS, the state code books require that all equipment being installed is to be listed. I do not know how that is even possible, but that is what is written.

Is there no exemption for "engineering supervision" or what not? If followed, that would seem to be a serious barrier, for example, for those who are developing prototype electrical equipment. Getting a listing for such devices is often impractical, if not impossible, given the ever changing state of prototype equipment. Isn't this the state that people like Edison and Tesla invented all that great electrical equipment? Imagine if it all needed to be listed before it could be "installed"!

 

[ActionDave]

#1. "Almost done" is not the same as "done".
#2. If you needed a ladder to install it, I probably need a ladder to inspect it.
#3. Saying you don't have tools with you doesn't mean it won't get opened, it just means I'll have to walk out to my truck and get my tools and we'll be opening a lot more.
#4. "I ran out of ______," is not a good excuse.
#5. I never get to say, "I'm to busy to do your inspection", so you shouldn't be to busy to be there (depending on the inspection).
#6. I know, we're the only ones calling that. (See #4).
#7. I love a good argument, let's just make sure that we both have something to back it up with. (Paper work, code book, etc.)
#8. No matter how far over my head you go, I am the only person in our city with my experiance, and I will eventualy be asked my opinion or side. I can always back it up. (See #7)
#9. A phone call can save a lot of headache later. If I don't know the answer, I will find the answer as quickly as I can for you.



Before anyone jumps all over me, I added the smiley faces so you would all know that this is all in fun.

If rule #1 can be bent just a little bit I will happily accept all the rest.

 

[George Stolz]

The thing that I don't understand is, what section of the NEC mandates that the customer's equipment be listed?

I'm curious about this, as well...

90.7 Examination of Equipment for Safety.
For specific items of equipment and materials referred to in this Code, examinations for safety made under standard conditions provide a basis for approval where the record is made generally available through promulgation by organizations properly equipped and qualified for experimental testing, inspections of the run of goods at factories, and service-value determination through field inspections. This avoids the necessity for repetition of examinations by different examiners, frequently with inadequate facilities for such work, and the confusion that would result from conflicting reports on the suitability of devices and materials examined for a given purpose.

I don't see anything in that section that requires listing. I see a couple sentences devoted to telling the industry at large that listing speeds the inspection process.

I would demand the inspector show me a code/law stating that the equipment connected needs to be listed before I wasted time unhooking and hooking the equipment up.

 

[cowboyjwc]

If rule #1 can be bent just a little bit I will happily accept all the rest.

We'll see what we can do, but don't tell anyone else.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

I would demand the inspector show me a code/law stating that the equipment connected needs to be listed before I wasted time unhooking and hooking the equipment up.

As I mentioned before, there are locations in the NEC that require a particular item to be listed. That does not mean all items are required to be listed.
110.3(B) discusses the need to following listing instructions as part of the code, but in itself does not require listing of items.

In some jurisdictions, there are more strict requires in regards to listing, such as in NYS. I just am not sure how the jurisdictions that have such strict requires expect them to be adhered to.