Inspection failed for bonding locknut, NEC code needed please

tortuga said:
338.6
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That says (2017) "Type SE and USE cables and associated fittings shall be listed."

I don't think a strap is a fitting. The definition of "fitting" is "An accessory such as a locknut, bushing, or other part of a wiring system that is intended primarily to perform a mechanical rather than an electrical function." A strap clearly performs a mechanical function, but I would not say it is part of the wiring system. It's just one of many options for supporting a wiring system. If you left out a strap on a raceway, the violation wouldn't be that the conduit system was not installed complete (300.18(A)), it would be that it wasn't fastened in place (300.11(A) or the article specific to the raceway type).

Cheers, Wayne
 
MrTomas said:
The bare wire goes here
OXdMYfa.png
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Thank you. Looks cold there.
Nice to have back up Gen.
I think the split bushing would take care of the insp. Be sure they run a jumper to it.
 
wwhitney said:
I don't think a strap is a fitting. The definition of "fitting" is "An accessory such as a locknut, bushing, or other part of a wiring system that is intended primarily to perform a mechanical rather than an electrical function." A strap clearly performs a mechanical function, but I would not say it is part of the wiring system.
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What system would you say its a part of ?
 
tortuga said:
What system would you say its a part of ?
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I'd just call it general hardware, like a bolt or a screw. The definition of "premises wiring system" refers to "associated hardware, fittings, and wiring devices." So there's space for a category of things you need when installing an electrical system that are not fittings or wiring devices or even "equipment."

Cheers, Wayne
 
MrTomas said:
ATS on left, meter on right. (Verizon FiOS to the right of that). Cables to the generator go straight down and underground. Supply to the house panel is the cable that runs off to the right.
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There are two conduits coming down from the meter. Obviously one is the Utility conductors, but what is the other conduit? Normally I would say it was the SE conductors to the main panel inside, but that is what the SER (large cable) is going to.

More questions: Before the generator was added, where/how was the house/main panel conductors ran?
Was the main panel moved inside?
If not, why was the SER ran instead of using the original feed path to the main panel?
Or was SER used on the initial installation, but was too short to reach the TS so new SER was ran?
 
Little Bill said:
There are two conduits coming down from the meter. Obviously one is the Utility conductors, but what is the other conduit? Normally I would say it was the SE conductors to the main panel inside, but that is what the SER (large cable) is going to.

More questions: Before the generator was added, where/how was the house/main panel conductors ran?
Was the main panel moved inside?
If not, why was the SER ran instead of using the original feed path to the main panel?
Or was SER used on the initial installation, but was too short to reach the TS so new SER was ran?
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I actually had 2 meters and 2 main panels, one was for "off peak" service originally. The 2nd meter was removed for the generator project, so lets ignore that. The main meter as shown in the pic had one SER running up with utility power from the pole, and one SER running down underground and too the house basement.
The main panel in the basement was replaced and the new position moved slightly upwards. Old SER entered on the left of the panel, new enters on the top of the panel.
"why was the SER ran instead of using the original feed path to the main panel?" I don't understand the question. Old feed path was from the meter, new feed path is from the ATS. Old SER was wires inside of the conduit shown, new SER is big romex.
Also, they did not want to relocate the Verizon FiOS box, but if they did, the ATS could have been put on the right of the meter and the big ugly romex SER would have looked neater.
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tortuga said:
338.6
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That only applies to the cable and the cable connectors and does not apply to the supporting devices.
wwhitney said:
That says (2017) "Type SE and USE cables and associated fittings shall be listed."

I don't think a strap is a fitting. The definition of "fitting" is "An accessory such as a locknut, bushing, or other part of a wiring system that is intended primarily to perform a mechanical rather than an electrical function." A strap clearly performs a mechanical function, but I would not say it is part of the wiring system. It's just one of many options for supporting a wiring system. If you left out a strap on a raceway, the violation wouldn't be that the conduit system was not installed complete (300.18(A)), it would be that it wasn't fastened in place (300.11(A) or the article specific to the raceway type).

Cheers, Wayne
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You are correct. I submitted proposals for the 2008 code to clear this up for raceway wiring methods and they were rejected. The same concept would apply to cable wiring methods.
8-93 Log #2242 NEC-P08 Final Action: Reject
(358.6 Exception (New) )
________________________________________________________________
Submitter: Donald A. Ganiere, Ottawa, IL
Recommendation: Revise as follows:
358.6 Listing Requirements. EMT, factory elbows, and associated fittings
shall be listed.
Exception: Raceway support fittings and accessories shall not be required to
be listed.
Substantiation: The Article 100 definition of “fitting” seems to include
raceway supports. Many of the commonly used raceway support straps, clamps
and other items are not listed.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: Tubing support accessories are not considered “fittings”.
Sections 300.6 and 300.6(A) require support hardware to be constructed of
materials suitable for the environment for which they are to be installed.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12
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electrofelon said:
Would, say, EMT straps be acceptable? Does the requirement that something be listed mean "listed for the use"?
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Listed always means listed for the use.
Listed.
Equipment, materials, or services included in a list published by an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with evaluation of products or services, that maintains periodic inspection of production of listed equipment or materials or periodic evaluation of services, and whose listing states that either the equipment, material, or service meets appropriate designated standards or has been tested and found suitable for a specified purpose. (CMP-1)
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don_resqcapt19 said:
You are correct. I submitted proposals for the 2008 code to clear this up for raceway wiring methods and they were rejected.
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This kind of thing drives me crazy. Clearly it is not entirely clear whether a strap is a fitting. Why don't they just add the wording you propose? What are they scared of? It's 12 words. Why do they want to keep the code ambiguous? It boggles my mind.
 
338.6 only says that the cable and associated fittings shall be listed. Fittings are connectors, not straps. Those Unistrut or Kindorf clamps or straps are used across many trades, electrical, plumbing, mechanical and HVCR. So, they are not something that the NEC cares about.
electrofelon said:
do they State specifically what they are allowed to strap?
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They are made for pipe and conduit.

-Hal
 
Thought I would add a few pics for the home owner to follow along.
 

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I think we wasted enough time on this one clamp. I see no problem with it.

I don't like the workmanship, but I don't see, without installing conduit straight down, burying it over and up to an LB at the panel location that it could be improved.

-Hal
 
The inspector writes up for the missing grounding bushing, which BTW if there would be one inside the meter cabinet then there is no violation, misses the no bushing on the line to the generator, says nothing about that SE cable though it is really a judgement call, and says nothing about the zip ties holding the grounding electrode conductor to the SE cable, which at very least need to be sunlight resistant?
 
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