Inspector classifying stairway landing as a hallway....Grrrrrr

[Coastal]

I would not have a problem installing one during the rough in stage, but this is a finished house. Final inspection comes around and he is holding up the occupancy permit because the is no receptacle on the two stairway landings. Each is 12 feet in length so I see where he is coming from with his definition of hallway as opposed to the landing being a part of the stairway system, but there is little if any room for a piece of furniture for a lamp and there is a receptacle at the foot of both sets of stairs for vacuum use. Sure wish he would have said something at rough in inspection. No other inspector in adjoining jurisdictions require a landing receptacle but I'll be sure to make a mental note to install one in this town from now on. Grrrr...

 

[north star]

: = : = :

Do the AHJ adopted codes require it?

: = : = :

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I think the AHJ is misinterpreting that rule. A stair landing is not a hallway if there is no access to other areas of the structure.

 

[north star]

: = :

As a reference of the code section, ...Section E3801.10,
[ `06 IRC ] - Hallways........This one is a tough call !

Technically, the landing IS a Hallway !.......By the "letter"
of the code, IMO, ...a receptacle is required......Not so
sure about the "intent" ! :huh:

: = :

 

[Coastal]

I think the AHJ is misinterpreting that rule. A stair landing is not a hallway if there is no access to other areas of the structure.

My sentiments exactly; but he has dug in his heels and won't budge. Funny thing is, I did the same house a few miles down the road from this one, inspected by the same AHJ in or around 2007 and he did not seem to have a problem with no outlets on the landings. Go figure!?!? I hate busting sheetrock and remodeling a new house! Grrr...@#%$##%$%&^$%&%^*&)(*

 

[cowboyjwc]

I believe that the inspector is incorrect also.

Now my question, since I am packing to move my office, I thought there was something I read, about putting one there, in the changes for the 2014 Code. I know they added foyers to the 2011.

 

[Gregg Harris]

I would not consider it a hallway but it would comply as a wall space.

250.52 (A)
(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following: (1)

Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways and similar openings, fireplaces, and fixed cabinets

 

[GoldDigger]

I would not consider it a hallway but it would comply as a wall space.

250.52 (A)
(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following: (1)

Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways and similar openings, fireplaces, and fixed cabinets

And depending on the stairway, if it is not a hallway you might have to put a receptacle on both side walls of the same stairway segment..

 

[Coastal]

I was always under the impression that wall space referred to living area. Neither a hallway or landing would be considered living space.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I was always under the impression that wall space referred to living area. Neither a hallway or landing would be considered living space.

Yes but the NEC requires a receptacle in any hallway 10' or longer

 

[Dennis Alwon]

: = :

As a reference of the code section, ...Section E3801.10,
[ `06 IRC ] - Hallways........This one is a tough call !

Technically, the landing IS a Hallway !.......By the "letter"
of the code, IMO, ...a receptacle is required......Not so
sure about the "intent" ! :huh:

: = :

Could you quote that section-- just out of curiosity-- I still wouldn't expect an outlet to be installed there.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is 3801.10-- I don't see how this makes a stairway landing a hallway

E3801.10 Hallways. Hallways of 10 feet (3048 mm) or more
in length shall have at least one receptacle outlet. The hall
len~th shall be considered the length measured along the centerlIne
of the hall without passing through a doorway.

 

[btharmy]

So, is the landing more than 10' long?. If so, add the receptacle. If not, the inspector needs to get a hobby and stop nit-picking.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

So, is the landing more than 10' long?. If so, add the receptacle. If not, the inspector needs to get a hobby and stop nit-picking.

The hallway is 12' but the point is that they are on the final- everything is finished and he is requesting a receptacle. He should have said something on the rough in but IMO he is off base.

 

[Cavie]

If he is using a local amendment, it doesn't matter if he missed it on rough in. It would be required. We I was inspecting back in 06-08, I was instructed to require Outlets on landings but I don't remember the code ref but it was not Hallways.

 

[roger]

My sentiments exactly; but he has dug in his heels and won't budge. Funny thing is, I did the same house a few miles down the road from this one, inspected by the same AHJ in or around 2007 and he did not seem to have a problem with no outlets on the landings. Go figure!?!? I hate busting sheetrock and remodeling a new house! Grrr...@#%$##%$%&^$%&%^*&)(*

Try to contact one of the code consultants on this page, probably Melanie Butller and/or Ron Chilton for their take on the matter. You may not be in good standings with the local inspector if he is over ruled but, what the heck.


Roger

 

[david]

Stairway (landing) is defined in a building code. Hall (hallway) is defined in a building code, you should at least have those definitions clear before you proceed further.

Do you have approved drawings that define the location?

 

[Gregg Harris]

Stairway (landing) is defined in a building code. Hall (hallway) is defined in a building code, you should at least have those definitions clear before you proceed further.

Do you have approved drawings that define the location?

R311.6 Hallways; Minimum width of hallways shall be not less than three feet.

R311.7.5 Landing for stairways (excerpt) required at top and bottom of each stairway.

 

[david]

R311.7.5 Landings for stairways. There shall be a floor or
landing at the top and bottom of each stairway. A flight of
stairs shall not have a vertical rise larger than 12 feet (3658
mm) between floor levels or landings. The width of each
landing shall not be less than the width of the stairway
served. Every landing shall have a minimum dimension of
36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel.

It is my understanding from listing to the building inspectors on this subject many times in the last five years that a landing is not required unless you
have a door swing over a flight of stairs in this thread you most likely have floor space not a stairway landing.

That?s why I ask how do the drawings or other construction documents classify this floor area?

 

[kwired]

this landing is 12 feet long, how wide is it?

If you had say a 12 x 12 area what is to keep you from calling this a habitable room? If it is only 3 or 4 feet wide, it could be understandable to call it a hallway, a landing, or just uninhabitable space, but how wide does it have to be to get out of that classification? Some houses have hallways, landings, etc. that are larger than true habitable rooms in other houses.