Inspector want separate line for gas dryer

[Sparky4521]

Please help me fight the inspector on this. Nec States 1 20 amp circuit is needed to serve a laundry room and may power washer , gas dryer and any other outlets in said room or laundry area for ie: iron board. My inspector quote a nec code for utilization equipment stating that the gas dryer cannot draw more then 10 amps if it does it requires its own circuit. If that was the case wouldn’t a toaster need to be dedicated or a hot plate. All counter top outlets would all be separate circuits. I have no problem with this anywhere else except for this town. The inspector even said that they are the only ones who enforce that reasoning. Is he right can he take one part of the code and override a code that is specifically written for the application. Look forward to your replies

 

[Dennis Alwon]

There is nowhere in the nec, that I could find, that states gas dryer.... what section did he quote

 

[infinity]

Sounds like he's incorrectly applying this:

210.23(A)(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than
luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.

 

[packersparky]

I think he is referring to 210.23(A)(2).

Edit: Rob beat me to it.

 

[480sparky]

... what section did he quote

Welcome to The Experts portion of the show, where we examine
those three little words men find so hard to say:

"Code reference, please".
​

 

[Leespark57]

I think he is referring to 210.23(A)(2).

Edit: Rob beat me to it.

I do not consider a dryer fastened in place.

This article is often cited (incorrectly IMO) when a dishwasher and disposal share a 20 amp circuit. There are other reasons a DW/disp may require separate circuits (110.3(B)), but 210.23(A)(2) is not one of them.

 

[Sparky4521]

That is exactly the code he is referring. When he told me that i said the same thing about the dishwasher and the dryer not being fastened in place. At first I thought he was going to use the continuous load rule at 50 %. I’ve had these guys make me remove a halo h7 can and put in a shallow high hat can because he felt it was to close to the floor above and there were 2x8 rafters and I couldn’t find the clearance requirements to fight him with. The problem is they are that specific town inspector I cannot use another one. I’m hoping someone can give me solid reason to show him he is misapplying that code section. I love proving these guys wrong

 

[infinity]

That is exactly the code he is referring. When he told me that i said the same thing about the dishwasher and the dryer not being fastened in place. At first I thought he was going to use the continuous load rule at 50 %.

If the dryer is considered fastened in place then the 50% rule doesn't apply if the other appliance (say the washer) is also considered fastened in place. Read the code section carefully, if both appliances are fastened in place then the 50% rule does not apply.

210.23(A)(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than
luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug connected utilization equipment not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.

 

[ivsenroute]

If the washer and dryer are considered fastened in place then the rule does not apply and he is wrong. I would ask him what he believes "fastened in place" means first then take it from there. In my opinion, he is applying and interpreting the code incorrectly.

 

[JFletcher]

I have never seen a residential grade washer or dryer that are fastened in place.

Also, I would seriously doubt any residential grade gas dryer has a drum and blower motor current that exceeds 10 amps.

Welcome to The Forum.

 

[Sparky4521]

If the washer is “fastened “ in place then he is applying it right because I have a cinvience outlet for an ironing board too. Just like the code says. Could take that outlet off the circuit and put it with the lighting as convience ( which is still code ) and call him on that but I think that would screw me on the final. We all know I’m putting in the seperate circuit ,the panel is right there and the $50 for the AFCI breaker s minimal but I just need to prove to him he is wrong. I had them fail me for having an outlet in a closet for AV equipment and missing 3 plates that the painter took off. So I had contractor put a divider in. When he came back to reinspect. I go to show him the closet and he looks at me and says you were right there is no code we ( meaning the 3 inspectors is the town ) just don’t like it
That’s what I’m dealing with. I have even called my other Board certified inspectors that do the rest of Long Island and they all say we are correct and they make their own code
They are not bad guys they just have their own inturpurtation of the code that appply

 

[infinity]

If the washer is “fastened “ in place then he is applying it right because I have a cinvience outlet for an ironing board too.

If it's considered fastened in place then how is he apply that code section correctly? Is the dryer more than 10 amps, is there other not fastened in place equipment?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Whenever I ran into this situation I always ran a 10/3 and hooked it up 120v in case someone got a dryer. I laugh now because back then we only ran a 3 wire dryer outlet so it wouldn't help. We do the same now and at least there is the 10/3 with ground in the box.

BTW, I have seen many hookups of gas dryers with one circuit for the dryer and washer. Today we don't see many gas dryers

 

[romex jockey]

so, 210.11 C(2) is met>>>

(2) Laundry Branch Circuits. In addition to the number of
branch circuits required by other parts of this section, at least
one additional 20-ampere branch circuit shall be provided to
supply the laundry receptacle outlet(s) required by 210.52(F).
This circuit shall have no other outlets.

corect me if i'm wrong , but 210.23 Permissible Loads, Multiple-Outlet Branch Circuits is refering to what can be run along with general use receptacle and lighting circuitry

with 210.23 A1 & 2 dictating the 80%/50% unfastened/fastened utilization equipment (respectively)

doesn't the ex basically state this to be a non issue with a dedicated circuit , per 210.11 C(2) ?

>>>>

Exception: The small-appliance branch circuits, laundry branch
circuits, and bathroom branch circuits required in a dwelling unit(s) by
210.11(C)(1), (C)(2), and (C)(3) shall supply only the receptacle
outlets specified in that section.

~RJ~

 

[Dennis Alwon]

so, 210.11 C(2) is met>>>



corect me if i'm wrong , but 210.23 Permissible Loads, Multiple-Outlet Branch Circuits is refering to what can be run along with general use receptacle and lighting circuitry

with 210.23 A1 & 2 dictating the 80%/50% unfastened/fastened utilization equipment (respectively)

doesn't the ex basically state this to be a non issue with a dedicated circuit , per 210.11 C(2) ?

>>>>



~RJ~

Well if you have a duplex receptacle then it is not a dedicate cir

 

[MAC702]

Well if you have a duplex receptacle then it is not a dedicate cir

Would you allow a 15A duplex as the only receptacle on a 20A circuit? Would most AHJs?

 

[packersparky]

so, 210.11 C(2) is met>>>



corect me if i'm wrong , but 210.23 Permissible Loads, Multiple-Outlet Branch Circuits is refering to what can be run along with general use receptacle and lighting circuitry

with 210.23 A1 & 2 dictating the 80%/50% unfastened/fastened utilization equipment (respectively)

doesn't the ex basically state this to be a non issue with a dedicated circuit , per 210.11 C(2) ?

>>>>





~RJ~

The laundry branch circuit can supply multiple receptacles. They just cannot be located outside of the laundry area.

 

[romex jockey]

So by the EX's rationale, if dedicated circuits can have multiple outlets , can they also have multiple utilization equipment ,regardless of the 80/50% requirement in 210.23....?

~RJ~

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Would you allow a 15A duplex as the only receptacle on a 20A circuit? Would most AHJs?

Yes and Yes. A single receptacle would demand a 20 amp receptacle


210.21 (B) Receptacles.(1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A
single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall
have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.

Receptacle. A contact device installed at the outlet for the
connection of an attachment plug, or for the direct connection
of electrical utilization equipment designed to mate with the
corresponding contact device. A single receptacle is a single
contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke.
A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the
same yoke.

 

[packersparky]

So by the EX's rationale, if dedicated circuits can have multiple outlets , can they also have multiple utilization equipment ,regardless of the 80/50% requirement in 210.23....?

~RJ~

The word "dedicated" is in 210.(C)(2) or 210.52(F). You would still have to meet the requirements in 210.23(A)(1) and (2) if you meet those conditions.