Inspector will only acept UL as a testing lab.

[captain blue beer]

just had them look and the owners fixtures are ETL,

 

[captain blue beer]

ETL is what the mark looks like, but the company name is Intertek.

Cheers, Wayne

what I've read Interlink is the company name ETL is the stamp, they are on the OSHA approved list of NRTL's thanks for the post

 

[wwhitney]

what I've read Interlink is the company name ETL is the stamp, they are on the OSHA approved list of NRTL's thanks for the post

And doesn't NJ use the OSHA list? If so, what's the problem?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[rbalex]

I have said that many times, but taking a new look at the Article 100 definition, I am not sure.

I thought it had something to do with the adoption of and amending a code, but the definition doesn't say that.
Maybe the code needs different definitions...one of the "adopting authority" and one for the inspecting authority and/or inspector.

The NFPA/NEC definition of AHJ is a statement of responsibility, not a free grant of some individual prerogative. See Also Section 90.4(B) which is also a statement of responsibility. The "authority" comes from a statute legally adopted by the appropriate jurisdiction.

I have appreciated FedOSHA's 29 CFR 1910.399 definitions of accepted, acceptable and approved. It clearly states who the AHJ is (Assistant Secretary of Labor for Occupational Safety and Health) and the basis of their approvals.

What has always irritated me is the same statute (or a superior one) that gives the AHJ the authority will also absolve it from any liability.

 

[rc/retired]

What has always irritated me is the same statute (or a superior one) that gives the AHJ the authority will also absolve it from any liliability.

From total liability? I ask only ask because anyone can sue anyone for any reason.

 

[gadfly56]

New Jersey has a list of seventeen NRTLs and ETL isn't one of them.
N.J.A.C. 5:23-3.6

I searched for that section and can't find any reference to NRTL's in any of the Google results. Can you point me to the actual list?

 

[gadfly56]

From total liability? I ask only ask because anyone can sue anyone for any reason.

Pretty much. They have qualified immunity for any action taken in the execution of their assigned duties. Piercing that barrier is extremely hard and would require some action so far outside their scope of work that there wouldn't be an issue to be resolved by the trier of fact.

 

[rbalex]

From total liability? I ask only ask because anyone can sue anyone for any reason.

You can certainly sue but, absent an actual criminal act, the individual has no civil or criminal liability.

One of my favorite citations:

Los Angeles County Code:

• 103.4 - Liability.
  
  The fire code official, member of the fire code appeals review panel, officer or employee charged with the enforcement of this code, while acting for the jurisdiction, in good faith and without malice in the discharge of the duties required by this code or other pertinent law or ordinance, shall not thereby be rendered civilly or criminally liable personally, and is hereby relieved from all personal liability for any damage accruing to persons or property as a result of an act or by reason of an act or omission in the discharge of official duties.

EDIT ADD: The upside is that the County Code clearly defines who the AHJ is:

• Sec. 81-1. - General
  
  The Chief Electrical Inspector shall administer and enforce the provisions of this Code in a manner consistent with the intent thereof.

 

[rc/retired]

I appreciate that. My biggest fear as an inspector was I missed something.
I was always told the city would have my back. However, I was never that sure.

Ron

 

[rbalex]

I appreciate that. My biggest fear as an inspector was I missed something.
I was always told the city would have my back. However, I was never that sure.

Ron

In a since, it's like a court judge - they can't be held liable for a bad decision unless it was a case of bribery or some actual criminal act. Of course, while some judges can be voted out of office, it is usually pretty difficult. This is a good thing - judges sometimes must make unpopular (not necessarily bad) decisions. In the OP's case though, the inspector is just plan ignorant and should be overruled.

 

[rbalex]

Another Favorite.


SEC. 93.0315. NON-RESPONSIBILITY OF CITY.

Neither the City of Los Angeles, nor any department, board, commission, officer or employee thereof shall be held liable or responsible for any damage or injury caused by or resulting from the issuance of any permit issued, or any inspection or approval made under the provisions of this Code.

 

[captain blue beer]

And doesn't NJ use the OSHA list? If so, what's the problem?

Cheers, Wayne

I'm in Mississippi, came down from TN which has The Dept of Insurance to oversee the inspectors, not that i have found in MS

 

[captain blue beer]

I searched for that section and can't find any reference to NRTL's in any of the Google results. Can you point me to the actual list?

Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

this is the wili sight that has a link to the OSHA listed and recognized Testing lab's

 

[captain blue beer]

The NFPA/NEC definition of AHJ is a statement of responsibility, not a free grant of some individual prerogative. See Also Section 90.4(B) which is also a statement of responsibility. The "authority" comes from a statute legally adopted by the appropriate jurisdiction.

I have appreciated FedOSHA's 29 CFR 1910.399 definitions of accepted, acceptable and approved. It clearly states who the AHJ is (Assistant Secretary of Labor for Occupational Safety and Health) and the basis of their approvals.

What has always irritated me is the same statute (or a superior one) that gives the AHJ the authority will also absolve it from any liabi

 

[captain blue beer]

i found this article in consulting engineers' publication, i'm not quite comprehending it's outcome. almost that the only time to request an unusual product would be at the submittal process in plans review? but ETL's products are not unusual.
"Note that "approved" and "AHJ" also are defined in Article 100 of NFPA 70. Both terms are used in the definition of listed, so theoretically, this allows the AHJ to vet certain products or manufacturers. The place to do this is in the list of manufacturers or products in the specifications included within the contract documents. The specification is the only place this can be done, and if a nonstandard product is desired, use of this list is absolutely essential to allow use of the product."

Listed, labeled, and defined in the National Electrical Code | Consulting - Specifying Engineer

Listing and labeling is not confined just to NFPA 70: National Electrical Code. Just about every piece of IT, electrical, mechanical, and plumbing | Consulting - Specifying Engineer

www.csemag.com

 

[captain blue beer]

NRTL is the term to look up. ETL would love to help you on this, UL is ok but they are not the only show in town

thank you I've spoken with ETL and they are supposed to be getting an engineer involved.

 

[wwhitney]

I'm in Mississippi, came down from TN which has The Dept of Insurance to oversee the inspectors, not that i have found in MS

Sorry, I thought I was responding to coffeebean, who noted that ETL is not on NJ's list of NRTLs, but that's because the company's name is Intertek, which is on the list.

So does Mississippi not publish its own list of NRTLs, or reference OSHA's list? I would be amazed if they have a list and Intertek is not on it.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[captain blue beer]

Never met an inspector that is also the AHJ.

Met plenty that think they are, but they were always sorely mistaken.

correct Only the Father above is the authority having jurisdiction in my world.
some people don't know the chain of command, my understanding is: Father, water company power company, they all think they are ahead of the water company. let em try for a day or 2.

 

[letgomywago]

correct Only the Father above is the authority having jurisdiction in my world.
some people don't know the chain of command, my understanding is: Father, water company power company, they all think they are ahead of the water company. let em try for a day or 2.

Maybe don't mention that to your inspector. He might take it with a smile or immediately dismiss anything you say from that point.

 

[LarryFine]

Only the Father above is the authority having jurisdiction in my world.