Inspectors and Engineers

wc86 said:
So if EEs dont learn NEC in school how do they design prints? Learn it on the fly after on the job?
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You would be amazed at how little is actually known about NEC or real world applications when a fresh EE gets out of school.
we have interviewed new EEs and asked them basic utility questions…

”what is the LL voltage on a three phase wye-wye bank with 120VAC to ground”
”what is the amperage on both the primary side and secondary side of a 25kVA single phase transformer at full load”

a couple can pass, some struggle getting the answer
 
I was graduated in 1972, so none of this may apply now. We were required to take a EE305 course which IIRC was called rotating machinery. Tubes and FETs were covered in our electronics courses, Karnaugh mapping and logic reduction were covered. Computers were just being introduced other than in data centers. RTL, DTL, and TTL ICs were used in my co-op job, but not in school. Had I not grown up in an industrial plant, I'd have had no idea what a motor starter, relay, motor, or gearbox were.

This was in the timeframe when the degree was changing from EE to ECE (electrical and computer ...) where computer is far and away larger today.

IN MY OPINION, university taught me to think. My employer taught me to apply that knowledge. My engineering degree (well, engineering TRAINING) made that an easier task for them.

Our technical education system produces graduates who can DO things, often engineering as well.

I understand such things as trig, calculus, physics, chemistry, fields, etc, better than MOST tech school graduates. They understand how to hook a computer up to a laser cutting machine, PL/C, route and connect control wires, etc, better than MOST engineering graduates.
 
Chamuit said:
Are any of you having these ...problems... (way more frequently) with inspectors and engineers?

On the last several inspections I have had with AHJs, inspectors have walked up, looked at the projects, and handed me a green sticker. No opening of panels, equipment, nothing. The 50-foot stare is all the scrutiny I've gotten.

For the last (rough-in) inspection, I met the inspector, took him to the equipment and panels, and asked which covers he wanted to be removed. He turned to me and said, "We don't remove covers anymore, arc-flash potential." I said, "There's no power." Inspector, "Here's your green tag. I'll note you passed rough-in."
Man shrug


Then, today, on a submittal to a TDSP, they wrote back that the equipment being added needs to be located on the load side of the Main Panel and that it appeared the whole building load would be going through the equipment, but wire sizes and amps shown do not match up. I had to screenshot the drawing and use arrows to show the circuit flow and equipment arrangement and why wire sizes were correct.

Another project was sent back because they said the model number and nameplates on a piece of equipment didn't match. I had to send back a screenshot of their own documentation that showed the equipment, and nameplates were associated with an assembly. Geez, do I have to educate someone else's folks on how to read things??
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If anyone ever gives me the arc flash potential excuse for not removing covers, then I am not letting them inspect without proper PPE either unless they do their inspection from outside the arc flash boundary. Which probably will need to be determined at that same time.
 
wc86 said:
So if EEs dont learn NEC in school how do they design prints? Learn it on the fly after on the job?
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Understanding the way electricity works and the requirements of the NEC are related but different skill sets. Most EE's never have to deal with the NEC; those of us who do (like me) have to learn it after graduating.
 
ggunn said:
Understanding the way electricity works and the requirements of the NEC are related but different skill sets. Most EE's never have to deal with the NEC; those of us who do (like me) have to learn it after graduating.
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And usually the hard way. Not much in the way of schooling for such things until fairly recently.
 
petersonra said:
And usually the hard way. Not much in the way of schooling for such things until fairly recently.
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It's not necessarily all that hard. An engineering degree gives one the tools to understand the NEC rules, most of which actually make sense. Except for grounding, of course. :D
 
wc86 said:
I'm okay with inspectors but EEs are another story. By the way.. Is it true EEs dont have to learn NEC in school?
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Well, I'm insulted! :mad:

But I've worked with EEs that fit that idea!:ROFLMAO:

True!, why would an EE need to learn the NEC? The book is right there for them to look up stuff if they were ever involved in the building power trade, which 99.99% of them will never be involved with. It's all small electronics stuff since I was in school when dinosaurs roamed the earth. The power labs have been removed from my school, years ago!

Now for a PE license, that's a different ball game.
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I do not recall ANY questions on the EIT or PE that were NEC related. I do not think I carried the NEC with me that day, but I had an arm full of other books. Others came with hand trucks of books!
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
One of my friends had a EE professor who said we will only be teaching you about 5% of what you will need to know to do your job.
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It is pretty much expected that engineers will be educated well enough that they will know what they don't know and be able to learn what they don't know but need to know.
 
wc86 said:
Oh my god lol. It all makes sense now
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If an EE getting into commercial/industrial design is lucky, they'll get into a shop with an experienced engineer who's already made the mistakes, so the "apprentice" doesn't have to.
 
gadfly56 said:
If an EE getting into commercial/industrial design is lucky, they'll get into a shop with an experienced engineer who's already made the mistakes, so the "apprentice" doesn't have to.
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My experience with the old timers where I first worked was that the mistakes they made became the "standard". It took me years to get them to stop jumpering N to G at the control panels.
 
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