Installation Manual release feedback

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Hello All:

Our company is releasing the following Installation Manual and would like feedback from industry professionals such as yourselves.

http://03942f6.netsolhost.com/images/Installation_Manual_rev_nov_7_2014.pdf

All feedback, good or bad, is welcome. It would also help if you would include your role in your comments (engineer, EC, inspector, etc.)

Specifically, we want to know if anything is confusing, could be stated more clearly another way, whether you would include it or exclude it based on any of the content, etc.

Thanks!
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
I notice it states "conforms with UL 916", but is it UL or NRTL listed ?
Yes it's listed.

The listing certification was done by Intertek/ ETL to the UL 916 standard. The "conforms with UL 916" is from the product label which required review by Intertek for content, material, etc. as a step in the product listing process. That's their language. I'll work on that.

Thanks for the question/ feedback.
 

Barbqranch

Senior Member
Location
Arcata, CA
Occupation
Plant maintenance electrician
It would be good if the instructions gave some sort of indication of when (ie light level) the device turns on and off. Sunset, S+20 min., etc.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Just curious - how is this better than a photoeye?
A photocontrol (photoeye) has a very short effective lifespan most commonly due to obstruction of the lens through which the light must pass to reach the photoresistor. Photocontrol performance decay is the most common factor in outdoor lights being on during daytime hours, outdoor lights coming on when clouds go over, and lighting systems switching multiple times per day.

Thank you for your feedback. We will consider inserting an overview of the benefits of the product in the Installation Manual.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
It would be good if the instructions gave some sort of indication of when (ie light level) the device turns on and off. Sunset, S+20 min., etc.
The algorithm is switching at a time such that during the most inclement weather the lights cycle at the prescriptive light levels in ANSI C136.10 American National Standard for Roadway and Outdoor Area Lighting. The light level is 16 lux +/- 6 lux.

We also do other light levels for other applications as well as custom light levels for Fortune 500 companies.

Thank you for your feedback/ question. We will consider inserting this information in the Installation Manual.
 

Aleman

Senior Member
Location
Southern Ca, USA
I assume the 1800VA is switched load capability? That works for me but still might just say output rated at XX amps etc. And you
might list output amperage/VA where it shows the wiring in the manual, instead of only at the front.

So this thing is an astro timer dusk to dawn that you never need to screw with the time settings? Basically a high tech photocell?
It isn't clear why I would want one of these from reading the manual....but I can be slow sometimes.

About how much do these go for?
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
I assume the 1800VA is switched load capability? That works for me but still might just say output rated at XX amps etc. And you
might list output amperage/VA where it shows the wiring in the manual, instead of only at the front.

So this thing is an astro timer dusk to dawn that you never need to screw with the time settings? Basically a high tech photocell?
It isn't clear why I would want one of these from reading the manual....but I can be slow sometimes.

About how much do these go for?
Yes the 1800 VA is the load rating. The amps of course is relative to the voltage (VA/A = V). The load can be a single light, a branch circuit (for example, a 15A circuit @ 120VAC), or the control side of a contactor.

Yes it's an astro timer that you never need to screw with the time settings. It's a replacement for, or used in place of, a photocontrol or programmable timer.

The installation manual was not intended to be a marketing document. By the time you read the Installation Manual it is presumed you already own the product. Our website explains the benefits of it (www.physics.us.com). We should probably include something in the Installation Manual with regard to benefits of the product though; thanks for the heads up. We should expect that one person in an organization will order the product and a different person will do the install. That person should know why it's being used.

You asked about price:

We are coming on the market through a national big box retailer at $55.

By comparison, a photocontrol costs $10-40 depending on what you buy and in what volume. Programmable astro timers cost up to $465 and are a nuisance to facilities maintenance people. Ours is plug-and-play, maintenance free, saves energy, extends the life of your bulbs & ballasts and reduces service calls.

One service call alone would cost more than the cost of our timer.

Thanks very much for taking the time to read and provide feedback. Every comment helps!
 

Aleman

Senior Member
Location
Southern Ca, USA
Well, this product seems a good thing to me and you are right astro timers can be pricey. And then you have to screw with them. I installed 2 at work. They came with these
little filters that I tossed because the manual failed to mention them. So occasionally these would lose all settings and I would get calls that lights failed to switch on at night.
I bought the filters which installed across the contactor coils and that fixed the problem. Are your units susceptible to noise?

$55 is reasonable. I will keep these in mind if I need a new install or upgrade or replacement.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Well, this product seems a good thing to me and you are right astro timers can be pricey. And then you have to screw with them. I installed 2 at work. They came with these
little filters that I tossed because the manual failed to mention them. So occasionally these would lose all settings and I would get calls that lights failed to switch on at night.
I bought the filters which installed across the contactor coils and that fixed the problem. Are your units susceptible to noise?

$55 is reasonable. I will keep these in mind if I need a new install or upgrade or replacement.
It sounds like you're getting noise on the line and the noise is cancelling some or all of the programming or settings? We've never had that problem. What's different about ours is that our software is integrated into the device with no user settings or programming. We have never had an instance where the software "disappeared" or was corrupted.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
On page 1 in the PDF it states:
If your TTFF is too long, you do not have a good location and you should relocate the controller to a better location on your site. The TTFF Benchmark is 38 seconds. If your TTFF is 38 seconds or less, you have an optimal installation. If your TTFF is 2 minutes or more, find a better location.
On page 2 in the PDF you state :38 seconds is the optimal time or TTFF, on page 5 it repeats the site testing but changes the optimal TTFF to 1:30? is this a type O ????

From page 2 in the PDF:
You can pre-test any location using one of the following methods:
1. Using a smart phone. Simply download and run any of the free GPS apps. If you can see four or more satellites in the view you are in a very good location.
2. Using a low cost handheld GPS unit to see if you are within view of four or more satellites.
3. By making up a test jig using the controller and a light during the daytime. The time it takes for the light to switch off is your Time To First Fix (TTFF). A TTFF of 38 seconds is best and 2 minutes is too long.
From page 5 in the PDF:
How can I test locations for good satellite signal reception? There are several ways to test a location for suitability:
? Smartphones with free GPS apps can show you a live view of the GPS Satellite system. If you see four or more satellites you are in a good location.
? Any low cost, off-the-shelf, handheld GPS unit will work fine. Make sure you can see four or more satellites.
? You can also make your own test jig using a controller and a light. Obtain a TTFF under 00:01:30 and you?re in a good location.
This is a little contradictory and can be confusing?

I'm still working to get them at work but it's allot of red tape:rant:

We still need a 480 volt version?
 
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cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
You spent a lot of money to bring this to life, I'll beat you'll didn't hire a Editor or a Press Agent. This looks like the best scientist or highest English lit. put this together, it's totally clear in their mind, but here I go.

What is www.Light-Lock.com ? The site is dead and various other typed try's didn't work!

I noticed you later applied > www.physics.us.com, in a later post. Is someone going to
correct this?

Is this literature of your product on the web page? Or is this the piece of paper that is in the box to be used as a 110.3 requirement for the qualified electrician to install by?

You later explained what your doing with all the various literature's. In the first OP
you linked it clearly states that you only need

?The controller interface is ANSI C136.10 twist-lock plug with optional receptacle for wire-in applications.?

Isn't this an either or situation; ?ANSI C136.10 twist-lock plug or with a optional receptacle
for wire-in applications.? OK, so besides my confusion of not knowing what a ANSI C136.10
was, through out you continually illustrated what looks like a Edison screw in plug.

So I'm confused does it come with one or both in every sale? The Specifications only spec the unit itself not the female cord plug.

So, I'll assume that it sells with a twist-lock female cord cap that has threads to attach
with a lock washer. You explained that otherwise in a later OP but again for me it's not
clear what I have exactly to work with. You need to list what a buyer is to get on every page, on the I-net, and on any packaging both inside and outside on the package.

The whole sheet looks like a bad technical manual. One doesn't center some titles and
then use other titles to the left. The first three sections should be changed up. If you don't feel the need for that at least change; put the Table of Contents to be under the title of Installation Manual. Put a new listing in the Table of Contents for Overview of your product. Put the word Overview over the 5-6 sentences. You can center to page the illustration that is floating to the hard right of page!
If the first group of sentences are not an overview than call it what you need to but I was ready to install, and I get all these statement that I wasn't ready for!

The big dot listing in CAPS should be first listing not second. If you want to make a statement then put it first.

One might want to explain the radio interfacing of the GPS, so the electrician understands.
If in fact that every 38 seconds a signal is received should you have any consideration
for test placement before permanently installing this item? I don't have GPS interface equipment is there an App for that? Well list one or two.

The technical illustrations are a big let down, why is that everyone feels that
small text on an illustration is better, plus you have various sizes of text through out.
You pasted the text onto the art work this doesn't reproduce well in mass printing.
If one makes a call out then a leader line and arrow why not put the arrow on the item one is calling out.

OK, so you later mention in another post using EL's, with the requirement of the antenna facing the correct direction. Will the spin of the device always align to proper direction.
Is there a rubber gasket supplied to make up difference? There is no dimensions supplied
should the installer consider some upset of EL or pipe leading to it. This probably won't sit correctly of a water proof box but we don't know that because the sold device nor the female cord cap is not listed or sized.

Is there a serial number to register the product?
 

hurk27

Senior Member
I just saw that the table of contents does not have the correct pages for the sections listed:

Section I (Specifications) is correct and is located on page 1 right after the introduction and the table of contents.

Section II (Location) is also correct as it starts on page 2 and ends on page 3.

Section III (Installation) is not correct as it starts on page 4 and ends on page 4 but is listed in the TOC as on pages 3-4.

Section IV (Powering Up) is also not correct because it starts on page 5 and ends on page 5 at the top but is listed as being on page 4.

Section V (FAQ) is also wrong as it starts on page 5 and ends on page 6,but is listed as being on page 4

Warranty & Terms of Use is located on page 6 but listed as being on page 5

Another point that may or may not be a problem is most contacts have a different rating for tungsten (resistive loads) and ballasted loads such as HID lighting, you list just 1800va where most photo cell systems and or other controls with a set of contacts for the control will have 1800 for the tungsten capacity but have a rating like 1000va for ballast loads, you might want to check that the contacts used in your control are in fact rated 1800va for both or you should give both ratings instead of just the one.
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
You later explained what your doing with all the various literature's. In the first OP
you linked it clearly states that you only need

?The controller interface is ANSI C136.10 twist-lock plug with optional receptacle for wire-in applications.?

Isn't this an either or situation; ?ANSI C136.10 twist-lock plug or with a optional receptacle
for wire-in applications.? OK, so besides my confusion of not knowing what a ANSI C136.10
was, through out you continually illustrated what looks like a Edison screw in plug.

So I'm confused does it come with one or both in every sale? The Specifications only spec the unit itself not the female cord plug.

So, I'll assume that it sells with a twist-lock female cord cap that has threads to attach
with a lock washer. You explained that otherwise in a later OP but again for me it's not
clear what I have exactly to work with. You need to list what a buyer is to get on every page, on the I-net, and on any packaging both inside and outside on the package.
The Light-Lock light controller physically looks very similar to the common twist-loc photo cell used on most street lights and many dusk till dawn fixtures, it has the same twist-loc prongs out the bottom that the photo-cells have and is a direct swap out for these types of photo-cells, there is no cords or receptacles on cords, you can purchase the actual panel mount three prong twist-loc receptacle or the one offered by the OP that has the ?" pipe thread mount that is commonly installed into a ?" threaded condulet on a pipe sticking up, this is also a very common method for mounting twist -loc photo-cells, the PDF should have listed the NEMA numbers for the twist-loc photo-cell receptacle (LC-10R) instead of the ANSI number which is not very useful for a field electrician

One might want to explain the radio interfacing of the GPS, so the electrician understands.
If in fact that every 38 seconds a signal is received should you have any consideration
for test placement before permanently installing this item? I don't have GPS interface equipment is there an App for that? Well list one or two.
The 38 seconds is the time it should take for the unit to receive the signal and make the choice of switching the load, it is called Time To First Fix or (TTFF), it doesn't do it every 38 seconds, it does this just once when the unit is first powered.

Basically you can test a location for a good signal by using the GPS function on a cell phone or if you have any hand held GPS unit that also displays the amount of satellites it is receiving will also work, I have two hand held GPS receivers that will do this, both are Garmin's and will not only show which satellites I'm connected to but also the direction they are from me or from the location of the GPS unit, but not all GPS units have this feature, some phones apps do but you have to check which ones, one of my hand held are not even a map type as it just leaves a trail that you can follow back if you get lost in the woods, it was only about $49.00 at an outdoor store, but it does displays the satellite info that you need?

OK, so you later mention in another post using EL's, with the requirement of the antenna facing the correct direction. Will the spin of the device always align to proper direction.
Is there a rubber gasket supplied to make up difference? There is no dimensions supplied
should the installer consider some upset of EL or pipe leading to it. This probably won't sit correctly of a water proof box but we don't know that because the sold device nor the female cord cap is not listed or sized.
The twist-loc receptacle for a photo cell has slots for the mounting screws that allow you to turn the receptacle so the controller can point in the right direction, this is the same thing we had with a twist-loc photo cell which should have the photo element always pointing north so the element is not directly in the sun which will shorten the life of the photo cell, if you get the twist-loc receptacle that has the ?" threaded mount it can be pointed in any direction and by using an inverted loc-nut to tighten it up against the condulet or box it is mounted to, the PDF give the directions on how to aim the antenna away from the building or other obstruction that may impair the reception of the satellites, it's not that hard to figure out.

Also the graphics clearly show where you can or can not mount the controller, metal or concrete structures then the unit must be mounted outside, wood with asphalt shingles it can be mounted inside, just keep in mind that anything that can block a radio signal can block this unit from receiving the satellites, unlike the much higher frequencies of sat radio and TV, GPS signals will go through quite a bit of different non-conductive materials, but having a hand held GPS receiver will be the best way to be sure, also as the PDF said, you could rig up a test unit by making up a test jig using the controller and a light during the daytime, by seeing how long it takes for the lamp to turn on will give you an indication of how good the signals are and how many satellites your receiving.

If I didn't have the hand held's already, I would use an extension cord and put a box on the end with a switch, mount the controller on it with a small lamp socket on the other side, hold it in the position where you want to test for a signal and turn the switch on and time how long it takes for the lamp to turn off, of since the controller fail safes on this must be done in the day time hours.
 
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mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
A very sincere thank you to all who provided feedback on the draft Installation Manual.

FYI This product is now available through the Home Depot website at http://www.homedepot.com/s/lightlock?NCNI-5

If you look at the published installation manual you will find your comments incorporated therein. http://gpslightlock.com/images/Installation_Manual_rev_nov_26_2014_r2.pdf

We always welcome feedback on the manual and on the product.

For those who provided feedback on the manual, I'll offer you some deeply discounted samples for your own use or for a customer to try it out if you PM me.

Thanks again. :thumbsup:
 

steve66

Senior Member
Sorry, I looked through the manual, but didn't have time to proofread.

But it does look like an interesting product. Photocells frequently seem too simple, and full blown electronic, astronomical timers often seem like overkill.
 
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