Inventive ways to catch unpermitted work

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Mgraw

Senior Member
Location
Opelousas, Louisiana
Occupation
Electrician
Reasons for water heater inspections.
If gas is the water heater vented properly, is the gas line installed properly.
If electrical is the wiring done properly.
Is the relief valve installed and piped outside.
Are the waterlines installed properly.
Is the water heater installed on a platform.
 

wptski

Senior Member
Location
Warren, MI
It's simply another way to try to get more revenue that getting away from them. Just like cracking down on deliquent parking tickets.

Just like I noticed a $4.29 charge on my credit card for Interest for a Cash Advance and that's with no activity during that peroid other than the previuous months payment of the balance. I'm going to call PNC tomorrow.
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Just follow the rules and you don't have to worry. They apply to EVERYONE.

I'd turn somebody in without giving it a second thought. Actually I have.

I don't even want a "reward". Knowing that I got one dirtbag out of the way for us legit guys (even if only temporarily) is reward enough for me.
 

satcom

Senior Member
It's simply another way to try to get more revenue that getting away from them. Just like cracking down on deliquent parking tickets.

Just about all of the inspection departments are revenue neutral, and in many states it is illegal for them to profit on the inspection process, in my city and most of the cities and towns around here they lose money on operating inspection departments. What area do you live in, where they make money on inspections.
 

sd4524

Senior Member
Electricman- I can see turning in somebody for a big job if you think they are undercutting you somehow. Would you turn in your neighbor (or anybody really) because he has a few 2x4's and some sheets of drywall in his driveway?
 

satcom

Senior Member
Electricman- I can see turning in somebody for a big job if you think they are undercutting you somehow. Would you turn in your neighbor (or anybody really) because he has a few 2x4's and some sheets of drywall in his driveway?


That makes sense, I guess a small job, that is not to code, or inspected, will only injure or kill someone just a small amount, or cause a small fire, it has nothing to do with undercutting, it is public safety.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
That makes sense, I guess a small job, that is not to code, or inspected, will only injure or kill someone just a small amount, or cause a small fire, it has nothing to do with undercutting, it is public safety.


And just where do we draw the line as to when to stop requiring certain things to be inspected? We are over regulated so much as it is, and not just the electrical or construction related trades I mean everything.

If public safety is the concern then maybe everytime you buy a hamburger for lunch there should be a health inspector to check your sandwich to make sure it is safe to eat. Maybe there should be a traffic cop every 500 feet on every public road to make sure no one breaks any traffic laws and endangers themselves or others. Shouldn't an auto mechanic that replaces the brakes on your car have someone inspect this work? It can result in just as much or more life and property damage if done incorrectly as improperly framing a patio deck.

There are so many other professionals that are not inspected in the same way as construction professionals are. Why is that? Construction people are not smart enough to do things right the first time? Some maybe are not. Others know more about what they are doing than the people that inspect them. There are many regulated professions that get some type of inspections only once a year or even less than that, and some only when there is some kind of accident or lawsuit, but certainly not an inspection for practically every client that work is done for.

I guess that new construction and major additions or rennovations are like manufacturing a new product, and many products are often evaluated by a third party for public safety reasons, but even then you find companies that cheat or mislead people to put their products on the market and make consumers think they are safe.

As far as the inspector hiding and waiting for a guy to commence replacing a water heater, he needs to get a life, or at least a real job. Most inspectors I know of do not have time to do something like that, when they do catch someone doing unpermitted work that should be permitted, they just happen to be in the right place at the right time, or may come in afterwards when some one else files a permit for other work and finds what has been done.

We need laws for public safety, but they can't be so strict that we no longer have individual freedoms granted by the constitution either. If a homeowner wants to do something to his own house he should have the right to do that and assume whatever risk there is for not doing it to certain standards, If an individual or business were to do the same then we have standards to meet even if an inspection is not required, but even then if something goes wrong we are still held liable for the problem in many cases.
 

Split Bolt

Senior Member
kwired, I checked your public profile, but couldn't find where you live. But if you ever run for public office, give me some notice so I can move there and vote for you!:D
 

Mgraw

Senior Member
Location
Opelousas, Louisiana
Occupation
Electrician
As far as the inspector hiding and waiting for a guy to commence replacing a water heater, he needs to get a life, or at least a real job.

If a homeowner wants to do something to his own house he should have the right to do that and assume whatever risk there is for not doing it to certain standards, If an individual or business were to do the same then we have standards to meet even if an inspection is not required, but even then if something goes wrong we are still held liable for the problem in many cases.

The inspector had been trying to catch this guy for a while. He knew he was coming to install the water heater. He just needed to catch him in the act.

I also am all for homeowners doing their own work without permits or inspections. My only requirement would be that they or their heirs could never sell their house.
 

satcom

Senior Member
And just where do we draw the line as to when to stop requiring certain things to be inspected? We are over regulated so much as it is, and not just the electrical or construction related trades I mean everything.

If public safety is the concern then maybe everytime you buy a hamburger for lunch there should be a health inspector to check your sandwich to make sure it is safe to eat. Maybe there should be a traffic cop every 500 feet on every public road to make sure no one breaks any traffic laws and endangers themselves or others. Shouldn't an auto mechanic that replaces the brakes on your car have someone inspect this work? It can result in just as much or more life and property damage if done incorrectly as improperly framing a patio deck.

There are so many other professionals that are not inspected in the same way as construction professionals are. Why is that? Construction people are not smart enough to do things right the first time? Some maybe are not. Others know more about what they are doing than the people that inspect them. There are many regulated professions that get some type of inspections only once a year or even less than that, and some only when there is some kind of accident or lawsuit, but certainly not an inspection for practically every client that work is done for.

I guess that new construction and major additions or rennovations are like manufacturing a new product, and many products are often evaluated by a third party for public safety reasons, but even then you find companies that cheat or mislead people to put their products on the market and make consumers think they are safe.

As far as the inspector hiding and waiting for a guy to commence replacing a water heater, he needs to get a life, or at least a real job. Most inspectors I know of do not have time to do something like that, when they do catch someone doing unpermitted work that should be permitted, they just happen to be in the right place at the right time, or may come in afterwards when some one else files a permit for other work and finds what has been done.

We need laws for public safety, but they can't be so strict that we no longer have individual freedoms granted by the constitution either. If a homeowner wants to do something to his own house he should have the right to do that and assume whatever risk there is for not doing it to certain standards, If an individual or business were to do the same then we have standards to meet even if an inspection is not required, but even then if something goes wrong we are still held liable for the problem in many cases.


All the constitution and freedom talk sounds fine, but it may be you don't understand why we have inspections, and it has nothing to do with the rights or freedom, it is your insurance underwriters and risk loss prevention, the reason we have inspections and codes. I have no idea why people think the gov are the ones requiring inspections.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
I also am all for homeowners doing their own work
I agree 100% with this
without permits or inspections.
I disagree with this
My only requirement would be that they or their heirs could never sell their house.
If they are not permitted and inspected I would agree 100% with this.

When a HO pulls a permit and let's some jack leg do the work, it is slapping the licensed contractors (who have expended money and time to become licensed contractors) in the face especially in these times of EC's going out of business daily


Roger
 

mivey

Senior Member
That's how the USSR works too turn in your neighbor.
I saw a show on spy gadgets and they said a lot of them were developed in East Germany where they had neighbors spying on neighbors. I think they said that about 1/3 of the country was spying on the rest.

I really have enough trouble keeping my own house in order and don't have the time nor inclination to spy on my neighbor. I get a little nosy from time to time, but just for my own curiosity.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
kwired, I checked your public profile, but couldn't find where you live. But if you ever run for public office, give me some notice so I can move there and vote for you!:D


I live in Nebraska, we have state wide electrical inspection program with some of the larger cities that have their own programs that must meet the state requirements at a minimum but can be more strict with some rules if they wish, as they are overseen by the state. Electrical permits and inspections are required for most projects, with residential however it is not required if there is not going to be a new service installed, so an addition or rennovation that will not have any change to service equipment will not require a permit or an inspection. In general I still do the same work that I would do if it were to be inspected, for one thing it is the right thing to do, and why have two sets of standards of how to do things. There is not much regulation outside of the larger cities over other construction trades. HVAC guys need certification to purchase refrigerant or refrigerant containing products but need nothing else to be able to install them in many cases, plumbers may be inspected for presence of back flow prevention on municipal systems, but that is about it, and there are literally no framing inspections at all. Fire marshall does inspect public and commercial buildings, usually looking at ADA requirements, and emergency egress items, their requirements do not always make any sense either though. On a new office building that had an unfinished basement they wanted a 1 hour fire door on the stairway but yet they had exposed wood floor joists under the entire structure. I guess if the building caught fire the stairway may still be there when everything else is gone.

Like anywhere else we do have our problems but after reading many peoples complaints here about inspectors, permitting agencies, and things like that I still feel we have things pretty good.

As far as running for public office I don't have the patience that will likely be needed to put up with what goes on in public office, sorry, I could have all the right ideas but only 1% of them would likely ever be addressed in reality. I think we have things pretty good here compared to many places and yet there is still a lot that just does not seem right or fair to all.
 

Mgraw

Senior Member
Location
Opelousas, Louisiana
Occupation
Electrician
I live in a rural area where the only inspection required is for septic tanks. I work in several cities and towns close to where I live. The thing that gets me is I have not gotten one job in the rural areas, my price is always too high. Yet in the cities and towns where there are inspections my price is always in the ballpark. Materials, insurance, labor, taxes all cost the same whether I am working in a city or working in a rural area. I don't get it.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
All the constitution and freedom talk sounds fine, but it may be you don't understand why we have inspections, and it has nothing to do with the rights or freedom, it is your insurance underwriters and risk loss prevention, the reason we have inspections and codes. I have no idea why people think the gov are the ones requiring inspections.

Residential remodeling inspections and permits are mostly about revenue in 2 ways.

1 - the taxing bodies use them to track supposed increases in value of your property so they can jack up your taxes.

2 - its used to restrict who can be in that business to prop up prices to suppliers of these services, many of whom are top contributors to the political campaigns of certain politicians.

Friday the governor of Illinois signed a bill into law requiring hair braiders to have 300 hours of training to get a license to braid hair. Of course, licensed cosmotologists can braid hair without any training at all under the law. You can guess who was pushing this bill along.

The locksmiths in Illinois have been trying for years to get the state to ban hardware stores and lumber yards from re-keying cylinder locks on the theory that somehow that should be restricted to locksmiths. They also want to ban tow truck drivers from unlocking car doors when people have locked their keys in them unless the tow truck drivers are also licensed lock smiths.

So far they have not been able to get this kind of nonsense passed, but they are close. If they are able to buy a couple more legislators this critical piece of public safety legislation will become law along with the hair braiding piece of public safety legislation.

While they have so far failed on these two points, they were able to get a law passed that public safety departments such as police and fire can no longer open vehicles if a person locks his keys in his cars except in emergencies.

At least a couple of you have been honest enough to admit that this is mostly a matter of personal financial gain for yourself, as opposed to hiding behind the public safety line.
 
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satcom

Senior Member
Residential remodeling inspections and permits are mostly about revenue in 2 ways.

1 - the taxing bodies use them to track supposed increases in value of your property so they can jack up your taxes.

2 - its used to restrict who can be in that business to prop up prices to suppliers of these services, many of whom are top contributors to the political campaigns of certain politicians.



At least a couple of you have been honest enough to admit that this is mostly a matter of personal financial gain for yourself, as opposed to hiding behind the public safety line.

If someone increases the value of their property, should their neighbor and the rest of the city pay for the benefit of the increase in asset, the city uses the permit information to track the increase in value to tax at the new rate.

The inspection process does nothing to give any contractor a financial gain.
 

Benton

Senior Member
Location
Louisiana
Service Work?

Service Work?

So what if there is an un marked vehicle and you spot someone walking in with a tool bag "servicing". How does that fit into the equation?
 
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