Inventive ways to catch unpermitted work

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norcal

Senior Member
In the "People's Republic" that I live in they want $114.00 for a permit to replace a water heater, mine is getting close to 30 years old & there is no way I will pay a dime to a inept bldg. dept. to replace it as they fail to provide good value for the "inspections" they perform, here are some of the fine examples of what is passed by them.


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That homerun bundle does not have a single staple in the run.(I checked).

BTW these methods of installation were used in more then 1 or 2 homes.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If someone increases the value of their property, should their neighbor and the rest of the city pay for the benefit of the increase in asset, the city uses the permit information to track the increase in value to tax at the new rate.

The inspection process does nothing to give any contractor a financial gain.

Why not? Inspection alone maybe not but licensing and permitting do. Lets broaden this to all licenses or permits for all occupations. If the only people allowed to do their type of work, are required to have a license then they have an advantage over the non licensed people. Non licensed people may or may not be competent to do the same work but are doing it illegally, and often times as a second job to make what ever money people are willing to pay them that is below what the licensed people are charging for the same service. The fact that in the construction trades permits and inspections are required for most work means that more people are monitored on a regular basis than in other lines of work. Restaurants do not have a health inspector inpect every plate before it is served.

It is easier to operate an unlicensed beauty salon out of your home than it is to run an unlicensed contracting business. The unlicensed contractors that only do small jobs however can get by without being caught easier because their work is not as easily discovered by the enforcing agency.

The stricter the laws and punishment are the more potential financial gain there is for licensed people.

There are people out there that will only have trusted professionals do any type of work for them, and there are others that will happily have anyone that thinks they can do the task do it, as long as it does not cost as much as the professional may charge.

I personally do not like the inspection process myself - why do I need someone else to look over my shoulder and tell me I am right or wrong with most everything I do. But it also has advantages of trying to keep unlicensed or untrained people from taking work away from me as well as finding mistakes when I do make them.

If they were to want to pass leglislation to make rules even more strict I would not be in support of it for the contractors vs homeowners performing electrical work debate, I would be in favor from an electrical safety debate.

Have you ever had a friend or relative perform any type of service for you because they had some type of experience with the type of service? Maybe they were even paid with a steak and a beer. Some professional lost that potential job to a steak and a beer. Happens all the time.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
If someone increases the value of their property, should their neighbor and the rest of the city pay for the benefit of the increase in asset, the city uses the permit information to track the increase in value to tax at the new rate.
I would not argue that point. But to pretend it is about safety when it is really about money is being dishonest.

The inspection process does nothing to give any contractor a financial gain.
Think again. It's a way to restrict the number of businesses that provide a particular service.

Artificially restricting supply almost always raises prices. It's pretty simple. If you collude with your fellow contractors to restrict supply in an attempt to raise prices it is illegal. But it's legal if you can get some governmental entity to do the supply restriction for you.
 
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electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Electricman- I can see turning in somebody for a big job if you think they are undercutting you somehow. Would you turn in your neighbor (or anybody really) because he has a few 2x4's and some sheets of drywall in his driveway?


Turn him into who? Is there a law against possessing 2x4s and drywall?
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
I would not argue that point. But to pretend it is about safety when it is really about money is being dishonest.


Think again. It's a way to restrict the number of businesses that provide a particular service.

Artificially restricting supply almost always raises prices. It's pretty simple. If you collude with your fellow contractors to restrict supply in an attempt to raise prices it is illegal. But it's legal if you can get some governmental entity to do the supply restriction for you.

Do you really think the cities and towns give a rats ass how may people are doing electrical work? As if they have some motivation to keep as many people out as possible?

CUE the twilight zone music
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
In the "People's Republic" that I live in they want $114.00 for a permit to replace a water heater, mine is getting close to 30 years old & there is no way I will pay a dime to a inept bldg. dept. to replace it as they fail to provide good value for the "inspections" they perform, here are some of the fine examples of what is passed by them.

Maybe you can put that $114 towards a new camera. :D
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Do you really think the cities and towns give a rats ass how may people are doing electrical work? As if they have some motivation to keep as many people out as possible?

CUE the twilight zone music

I don't think the towns care, but the contractors do, and contractors are often very generous to the local politicians, of all parties. That's not a coincidence. The politicians do care about keeping that largess flowing in their direction.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Friday the governor of Illinois signed a bill into law requiring hair braiders to have 300 hours of training to get a license to braid hair. Of course, licensed cosmotologists can braid hair without any training at all under the law. You can guess who was pushing this bill along.

It may sound dumb but I doubt if 300 hours of training is really excessive. Any time a person deals that close with the public they need to be aware of all the laws pertaining to running that type of business and also all methods used to prevent the spread of disease and infestations.

I see nothing wrong with required training and licenseing.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
It may sound dumb but I doubt if 300 hours of training is really excessive. Any time a person deals that close with the public they need to be aware of all the laws pertaining to running that type of business and also all methods used to prevent the spread of disease and infestations.

I see nothing wrong with required training and licenseing.

Is there any evidence that the hair braiding that has been going on up to now in the state of Illinois has been any kind of public health issue? As far as I can tell there was never any evidence of any health problems from hair braiding ever submitted as testimony at any of the committee hearings. Only vague suggestions that public health was the reason for the new law, and not campaign contributions from the very industry that presumably will benefit from the reduced competition.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
It may sound dumb but I doubt if 300 hours of training is really excessive. Any time a person deals that close with the public they need to be aware of all the laws pertaining to running that type of business and also all methods used to prevent the spread of disease and infestations.

I see nothing wrong with required training and licenseing.
But this is in a state where there is no state required training or license to do electrical work.
 

sd4524

Senior Member
In Illinois they should pay the trash collectors $50.00 if they turn in people that they see who may have been braiding hair illegally. Like a neighborhood mother or older sister that braids hair for everybody. This would be good for public safety.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
In Illinois they should pay the trash collectors $50.00 if they turn in people that they see who may have been braiding hair illegally. Like a neighborhood mother or older sister that braids hair for everybody. This would be good for public safety.
I heard about that on the news on TV last night. They were staking out suspicious locations, looking for clues.



Last reports said that police were still combing the area.
Ba-da-boom! :grin:​
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
This just in......... the DEA is offering $500 to any utility meter reader who reports a sudden increase in any customer's electricity usage.

Of course, the cops will immediately round up the SWAT team and go bust down the doors of the poor slob who is obviously starting a grow operation in the basement.
 

p51

Member
Location
south Florida
I am not concerned when I see a licesend contractor doing a job without a permit, I figure that is his buisness and not mine. I seriously doubt that there are very many contractors on this forum that have never done any work without permits, (adding anything new, recpt,switch,light etc. usually requires a permit). I do get PO'D when I see unlicensed people working on jobs that usually don't have a clue what they are doing and present a life safety issue and are doing jobs below my cost.
 

norcal

Senior Member
Maybe you can put that $114 towards a new camera. :D

LMAO! There are a few reasons that the pictures are of less then desirable quality, time of day (early morning) and was taken w/ a cell phone when walking the dog. But the $144 will pay a percentage of a new WH's cost & will be no more & no less safe then what is sitting there now.
 

e57

Senior Member
Spotting it is one thing.

Fining them and being able to make it stick in court is quite another.

I have plenty of scrap drywall, lumber, etc. laying around the house, just for emergency fix-its. If I set it out one day for the trash collector, would I expect to get fined?
SF, CA has a 10X permit fee you get a stop work notice, ignore it - you may get a red tag. (ignore that you may loose occupancy...) No court per se, but a sherrif preventing your entry to the structure, after which a civil case could come out of it. How many of those ever happen.... RARE if any sane person would take it that far. But if someone did I doubt it would get far...

How much work happens without a permit - loads.... But since it is so easy to report unpermited work, and even search permits yourself on-line - no one actually does it unless they have a bug up the kiester for some reason. Sooo much never gets caught...

That said I had a 'nieghbor' call up on me when I first got my house - saw the van there and heard me making noise in there when we just moved in - thought I was doing unpermited work for whomever sher thought were the new owners. (As I obviously could not be) Came by asked for a card... Before I could introduce myself she was off.... Called the DBI and reported it - Inspector came out and got a kick out it finding out I lived there and the extent of 'unpermitted work' was moving in and unpacking. Took nearly two years before she came back to introduce herself.... :roll:
 

satcom

Senior Member
I am not concerned when I see a licesend contractor doing a job without a permit, I figure that is his buisness and not mine. I seriously doubt that there are very many contractors on this forum that have never done any work without permits, (adding anything new, recpt,switch,light etc. usually requires a permit). I do get PO'D when I see unlicensed people working on jobs that usually don't have a clue what they are doing and present a life safety issue and are doing jobs below my cost.

The licensed person doing a job without a permit, when it is required for new work, In my opinion, is just as bad as having an unlicensed guy doing the work, the homeowner ends up with open liability, should anything go wrong with the work, and some insurance carriers have clauses that requires all work that requires a permit be permitted, the licensed or un licensed contractor, puts the owner at risk, when they do work with permits and inspections, and that statement ( I seriously doubt that there are very many contractors on this forum that have never done any work without permits,) is not the issue, just because someone may do illegal work, there are also those that have always secured permits, and inspections where and when required for all their work.
 
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