Irreversible Crimp Connectors 250.64 (C) (1)

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Esthy

Senior Member
Where can I find irreversible crimp connectors for solid AWG 4 and AWG 6? I use then to splice the GEC. I don't find then here in Tucson, they don't know even what I am talking about. I run out of those butt splices and I don't know where to find those anymore, the only ones I find here is for stranded conductors. I tried several manufacturers with no luck.
Whoa, maybe I live in the past! ... or is Tucson the last stop?
 
barbeer

barbeer

Senior Member
Location
Pinellas County, FL
Tucson may be the last stop! Supply houses here have a vast variety and even the tools to rent. I was under the impression solid and stranded used the same crimp?
 
Pierre C Belarge

Pierre C Belarge

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
Proper crimp to the tool

Proper crimp to the tool

If you already have the crimping tool, then you may need to go online to the manufacturer's website to locate the crimps. If you do not have the tool, then you can use any manufacturer crimp and tool.
My advice is to go online and search for what you need if the local supply houses do not have what you are in need of.
 
tom baker

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Bremerton, Washington
Solid and stranded wires have a different OD.
I have never seen a solid crimp connector. Once I had to splice a 4 AWG grnd elect conductor and used cadweld.
So, if the solid comp splices are available can you email who makes.
Also tool and comp connector must be listed as a combination, IE can't use T&B with Panduit.
 
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Esthy

Senior Member
For the last 2 months I have been correspondence with T & B and UL. I received 2 emails regarding the matter, but I am unable to post then and I think they are important . Please if someone, maybe Tom Baker or iwire (because they are moderators they can go over red tape) sent me his email address, not the one on the forum, I can forward the emails to them to post.
 
barbeer

barbeer

Senior Member
Location
Pinellas County, FL
infinity said:
Why are you splicing the GEC in the first place?
Click to expand...

there has been alot of this going on here with the price of copper and such, there are alot of lazy people who would rather steal copper off a job than work like everyone else.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
barbeer said:
there has been alot of this going on here with the price of copper and such,
Click to expand...

Regardless only the actual GEC requires a irreversible connection.

In this picture there is only one conductor that if cut would require an irreversible connection to repair.

Bonding_Jumpers.JPG
 
E

Esthy

Senior Member
If the NEC post a section: 250.64 (C) (1) is because someone, someday needs to do that. And sometimes I am forced to do that. My English is not the best to explain it and I don't want to open a can of worm. I would like to post the emails I received from UL and T & B, but I don't know how to do that from my e-mail to the forum. Can some moderators e-mail me at: multiservice@cox.net and I will forward the emails. I think it is important information that should be post in the forum.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Esthy said:
If the NEC post a section: 250.64 (C) (1) is because someone, someday needs to do that. And sometimes I am forced to do that. My English is not the best to explain it and I don't want to open a can of worm. I would like to post the emails I received from UL and T & B, but I don't know how to do that from my e-mail to the forum. Can some moderators e-mail me at: multiservice@cox.net and I will forward the emails. I think it is important information that should be post in the forum.
Click to expand...


Actually I think that your post is well written. I only asked because only the GEC requires an irreversible splice as Bob pointed out.

You can simply copy and paste your e-mails directly into your post.
 
E

Esthy

Senior Member
I forwarded the emails to Chris Kennedy, if he thinks is good to post them, then he will do. Sorry, but I tried and I don't find the way to send the emails.
 
chris kennedy

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
Esthy said:
I forwarded the emails to Chris Kennedy, if he thinks is good to post them, then he will do. Sorry, but I tried and I don't find the way to send the emails.
Click to expand...

This is some good stuff and IMO is post worthy. I reread the forum rules and the only problem I see is the "personal privacy" thing as there are E-mail adresses involved.

MOD's is this a problem?
 
E

Esthy

Senior Member
Well, someone email are: UL, a public testing lab that deal with everyone electric business and a Thomas & Betts a public company that deals in electric products. They will be happy to share that with the forum. You really are the people that dictate this business and they will appreciate any opinions, sugestions, etc. And for my e-mail, you have my permission to publicate it. I don't mind it.
 
chris kennedy

chris kennedy

Senior Member
Location
Miami Fla.
Occupation
60 yr old tool twisting electrician
Here it is Louis.
I could only get one attachment on this post.The other will follow.


-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Woodward
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 7:21 AM
To: louis duke
Subject: Re: FW: T&B Flag and Tee Connectors for Use in Grounding
andBonding Applications

Louis,

Thank you for the information. I have been traveling quite extensively
and am not sure if you ever received all the samples you needed. If
there was something missing, just remind me. The below is good news and
makes any transition design fairly easy as we worked with UL for listing
of the products for any field constructable design. I have attached some
information that may be helpful and also, the next phase of our KUBE
family of versatile products.

Regards,
jerry

Jerry A Woodward

>>> "louis duke" 11/6/2007 5:26 PM >>>
Hi Jerry, see below. Louis


Subject: T&B Flag and Tee Connectors for Use in Grounding and Bonding
Applications

Hi Louis,

It was good to meet you at the Southwestern Section IAEI meeting. Sorry
for the delay in responding to your question.

Based on the revision in Section 250.8 of the 2008 NEC, it appears that
it was the intent of NEC Code Making Panel 5 to permit any Listed
pressure connectors for grounding and bonding applications, and not only
pressure connectors specifically Listed for grounding and bonding.

At present, pressure connectors are covered in the UL product category
for wire connectors (ZMVV) and are not subject to the same testing as
grounding and bonding equipment (UL 467 - product category KDER).
Because on the 2008 NEC revision, we expect that we may receive
proposals to revise the requirements for pressure connectors to include
testing currently conducted only on grounding and bonding equipment. As
I am not aware that we have received any proposals yet, it would take
some time before any proposal would be adopted and become effective.

In the meantime, you may encounter different opinions based on the
applicable edition of the NEC that is in use. If using the 2005 or
earlier editions of the NEC, UL's position would be that Listed
grounding and bonding equipment (Product Category KDER) should be used
for 250.8 applications. For those using the 2008 edition of the NEC, all
Listed pressure connectors would be considered suitable.

Please note that these statements are the opinion of the writer, and
that formal interpretations of the NEC can only be made by the National
Fire Protection Association (NFPA).

Please contact me if you would like to discuss further.

Rich

Rich Berman
Sr. Staff Engineer
Regulatory Services
Underwriters Laboratories
333 Pfingsten Road
Northbrook, IL 60062



- For more information about UL, its Marks, and its services for
EMC, quality registrations and product certifications for global
markets, please access our web sites at http://www.ul.com and
http://www.ulc.ca or contact your local sales representative. --



Attached Message


Attachment 1: GM-8103%20Multi-Tap_r2.pdf (application/pdf)

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