Is it a Pullbox or not?

busman

busman

Senior Member
Location
Northern Virginia
Occupation
Master Electrician / Electrical Engineer
All,

Per the figure, if the 3 hot conductors are straight thru, one raceway to another and the only reason for the box is to pick up a EGC as a wire and not the GRC, is it a "pullbox" per the NEC? I think you are going to say that it is up to the AHJ? To me, if you are not using the box as a "pull point" then it is not a pullbox. The EGC is not spliced, so I don't think it can be considered a "splice box". I'm trying to decide if I need to use the 8x multiplier to size this box for "straight pulls". I get that I'm "down in the weeds", but this forum seems to love this sort of question.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Mark
 

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Interesting question. IMO whether it's required or not, or if it will not be used for pulling you still have to comply with the 8X rule. If you think of something like a C conduit body in larger sizes with conductors larger than #6 they are often used in a conduit run even though they do not count as a pull point. Will this box be in a conduit run with no more than 360° of bends?
 
infinity said:
Interesting question. IMO whether it's required or not, or if it will not be used for pulling you still have to comply with the 8X rule. If you think of something like a C conduit body in larger sizes with conductors larger than #6 they are often used in a conduit run even though they do not count as a pull point. Will this box be in a conduit run with no more than 360° of bends?
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Thanks. Yes, the 360 degree rule is not the reason for the box. There is an LB about a foot away from where I propose to put the box which would be a pull-point and reset the 360 degree rule. It's just to pick up the EGC, since I couldn't think of another way to do that.

Mark
 
From a practical standpoint your argument is sound. To the letter of the code I can't think of an exception to the 8X rule in this case. Just out of curiosity what size are the conductors?
 
infinity said:
From a practical standpoint your argument is sound. To the letter of the code I can't think of an exception to the 8X rule in this case. Just out of curiosity what size are the conductors?
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Thanks. #4. The only loop-hole I could think of is the fact that the Code says "Boxes and conduit bodies used as pull or junction boxes shall
comply with 314.28(A) through (E)." I was hanging my hat on the "used as" language.

Can you think of another way to pick up the EGC? I couldn't.

Mark
 
So the hypothetical device that you need is a GRC to LFNMC transition coupling with a way to attach a ground wire.

Something like https://www.spproducts.com/pdfs/IP13aa.pdf but with a wire attached on the inside.

I agree with the logic that the straight through pull not used as a pull point or splice point shouldn't trigger the size requires for a pull or junction box, since for the circuit conductors the box is basically just a transition fitting. I don't think that this meets the letter of the code since you do have a junction/splice in the box: EGC is spliced in that box!

I can think up other ways to pick up the EGC, but they all involve splicing or some sort of custom hardware, or running the EGC on the outside of the LFNMC. I suppose you could also just run a wire EGC the full length of the pull
 
winnie said:
So the hypothetical device that you need is a GRC to LFNMC transition coupling with a way to attach a ground wire.

Something like https://www.spproducts.com/pdfs/IP13aa.pdf but with a wire attached on the inside.

I agree with the logic that the straight through pull not used as a pull point or splice point shouldn't trigger the size requires for a pull or junction box, since for the circuit conductors the box is basically just a transition fitting. I don't think that this meets the letter of the code since you do have a junction/splice in the box: EGC is spliced in that box!

I can think up other ways to pick up the EGC, but they all involve splicing or some sort of custom hardware, or running the EGC on the outside of the LFNMC. I suppose you could also just run a wire EGC the full length of the pull
Click to expand...
Thanks. That link is a cool item. Appreciate that. Yes, I thought about adding an EGC to the GRC. Might be easier, as long as I don't run into one of those inspectors that insists that rigid be bonded on both ends.

Thanks,

Mark
 
I am curious exactly why you are adding an EGC at this point. Is it a spec issue? It seems there are multiple ways to comply with code without this. Why not just have the ground in the PVC as well, you are apparently pulling in. Or merely bond the conduit at the far end and use it a a ground.
 
Strathead said:
I am curious exactly why you are adding an EGC at this point. Is it a spec issue? It seems there are multiple ways to comply with code without this. Why not just have the ground in the PVC as well, you are apparently pulling in. Or merely bond the conduit at the far end and use it a a ground.
Click to expand...
This was more theoretical than anything. If the GRC run was say 2000', you would not want to install an EGC for that length just to take the EGC the final 20' in LFNMC. In my particular installation, yes, I will just pull an EGC in the 70' of GRC and call it a day.

Thanks,

Mark
 
busman said:
This was more theoretical than anything. If the GRC run was say 2000', you would not want to install an EGC for that length just to take the EGC the final 20' in LFNMC. In my particular installation, yes, I will just pull an EGC in the 70' of GRC and call it a day.

Thanks,

Mark
Click to expand...
That is why I was asking. You could merely provide an external ground using external ground flex connectors or other approved method.
 
busman said:
I guess that depends on the definition of JB. I would have said a JB has splices, but I can see your interpretation also. Maybe the Code should define JB?

Mark
Click to expand...
Technically you're joining the metal raceway to the wire type EGC in the LFNMC with the box.
 
busman said:
There is an LB about a foot away from where I propose to put the box which would be a pull-point and reset the 360 degree rule.
Click to expand...
The LB is on the GRC side of the proposed box? Then you could just replace LB - 1' of GRC - Box with a properly sized pull box.

Or can you just drill and tap the LB to connect your wire-type EGC, and skip the box?

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
The LB is on the GRC side of the proposed box? Then you could just replace LB - 1' of GRC - Box with a properly sized pull box.

Or can you just drill and tap the LB to connect your wire-type EGC, and skip the box?

Cheers, Wayne
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The LB is on the rigid side, but in a very exposed place; not good visually. I never considered drilling/tapping an LB. Seems kind of dicey given the pot-metal that conduit bodies (especially small ones) seem to be made of.

Thanks,

Mark
 
Sounds like the LFNMC is the the trouble maker. :)

I'd probably be looking for a better way to finish off the end of the run other than LFNMC. :)

Jap>
 
jap said:
Sounds like the LFNMC is the the trouble maker. :)

I'd probably be looking for a better way to finish off the end of the run other than LFNMC. :)

Jap>
Click to expand...
Yeah this issue and the fact that LFNMC effectively drops me to 60°C ampacities when in wet locations is why I look for other options.
 
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