I'm not arguing the issue. However, I will continue to maintain my position on the matter. It is a small insignificant difference, and really don't matter in the grand scheme of things. I don't have the time to spend on such insignificant matters, so I'm moving on...don_resqcapt19 said:
Is it Single or Two Phase?
- Thread starter iwire
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websparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Cleveland, Ohio
This is PURE B***S***. You have absolutley no clue as to phase relationship.
The only way a BS artist like yourself can get out of this is to say
Have you ever admitted a mistake in your life? Most of us here use our REAL NAME. What is yours? Let us know and possibly your peers so as to give credence to your experience and training. Anyone can claim anything behind a curtain.
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oscilloscope
oscilloscope
Don,
I agree that using any two hots of a three phase system will give you single phase, but are you sure about the o-scope? I think that if you have L1 & L2 on channels 1 & 2 of a scope, you should see some difference due to the inductance of the transformer windings.
I think that the single phase voltage measurement of lets say 240/208 V is the two sine waves from L1 & L2, which are superimposed.
-Matt
oscilloscope
Don,
I agree that using any two hots of a three phase system will give you single phase, but are you sure about the o-scope? I think that if you have L1 & L2 on channels 1 & 2 of a scope, you should see some difference due to the inductance of the transformer windings.
I think that the single phase voltage measurement of lets say 240/208 V is the two sine waves from L1 & L2, which are superimposed.
-Matt
Good answers to some things that I've often argued with myself about. I've nothing to add, but a lot to learn.
I'm sitting here now looking at the service feeding my home, and visualizing (attempting to anyway) the circuit back to the source. Some long held "certainties" are not so certain anymore.
This "lifetime student" says "keep it up".
steve
I'm sitting here now looking at the service feeding my home, and visualizing (attempting to anyway) the circuit back to the source. Some long held "certainties" are not so certain anymore.
This "lifetime student" says "keep it up".
steve
As for the o-scope, he's talking about meauring either referenced to the other, not referenced a steady state 0 volt reference. If you put L1 and L2 on separate channels and reference the measurement to steady state 0 volts, you will see each waveform is not the inverse of the other. They would be if it were a true single phase system.mpross said:
Here's a question for the open minded. In the following diagram, what is the current on the neutral? The simple truth of the matter is, if the current is anything other than 0A, it is not a true single phase system.
View attachment 55
- Location
- Massachusetts
Smart $ said:
The hogwash continues.
So going by your definition a 3 phase Wye system is actually four phase?
Lets keep it simple.
Forget about all other systems other than the one I opened this thread about.
Is the 120/240 service supplying my home single phase or Two phase?
Nope, not by my definition. I didn't even mention anything about a 3? Wye system. Where did you come up with this far fetched idea?iwire said:The hogwash continues.
So going by your definition a 3 phase Wye system is actually four phase?
Yes, let's. Why are you complicating it?iwire said:
Please look at my very first post (#19) in this thread! I offered a situation which IS two-phase, and you guys blow it all way, way, way out of proportion. You don't have to agree with me that it [240/120 off of a center-tapped delta system] is a two-phase system, because I really don't give a sit if you don't.iwire said:
- Location
- Massachusetts
Smart $ said:
Thats good because I do not like to agree to false and misleading information.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Smart $ said:Hey, I'm happy that you're happy being unenlightened.
LMAO.
I thought you did not care.
Hey, you already have me pegged, right? You should have expected me to change my mind. I was willing to leave it alone, but you guys keep coming back and ridiculing me. Am I to sit by idly?roger said:What happened to this statement?
If it is so insignificant, why are you still posting in this thread?
Not only is your electrical knowledge coming up short, your credibility as far as your "word" is too.
Roger
I often run across situation's in life in which a person will accuse another of some fault, and time proves that the accuser was really telling on him/herself. I believe this to be another case.websparky said:
Say you don't bond the center tap to ground and you measure the voltage from either A or C phase to the tap, can you tell me what that voltage will be? And exactly how that voltage is generated?
Please see post #23 in this thread. Make sure you check the last edited time.websparky said:
What! ...with the attitudes you guys have I'm likely to have an ignition-switch bomb planted in my car by morning.websparky said:
- Location
- Massachusetts
e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
But whats in a name?
But whats in a name?
Does anyone disagree that if you are only using two of three phases and neutral of a wye system, that you are not using two distinct phases?
So why would you with a delta, derived from 3 phases, and having 3 phases available, only using 2 of them being used be Called "single phase"? Is that the original question Bob?
Bear with me to try a little experiment. Stick your thumb/hand over the high leg, whats leftover? (3-1=2 or is it 3-1=1)
But whats in a name anyway? Are you using 2 phases of a 3 phase system, or only one?
Put your thumb over X2 and X3...
Is that two phases?
I think the only reason we call it single phase is to diferentiate it from this: http://electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000055.html
or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott-T_Transformer
or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_phase (truely two phase)
When we use this for the most part: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_phase
But whats in a name anyway?
Mark Heller 16+ years and still learning.....
But whats in a name?
Does anyone disagree that if you are only using two of three phases and neutral of a wye system, that you are not using two distinct phases?
So why would you with a delta, derived from 3 phases, and having 3 phases available, only using 2 of them being used be Called "single phase"? Is that the original question Bob?
Bear with me to try a little experiment. Stick your thumb/hand over the high leg, whats leftover? (3-1=2 or is it 3-1=1)
But whats in a name anyway? Are you using 2 phases of a 3 phase system, or only one?
Put your thumb over X2 and X3...
Is that two phases?
I think the only reason we call it single phase is to diferentiate it from this: http://electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000055.html
or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott-T_Transformer
or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_phase (truely two phase)
When we use this for the most part: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_phase
But whats in a name anyway?
Mark Heller 16+ years and still learning.....
I see you have a [bad] habit of speaking for everyone (but those that openly disagree with you).iwire said:
Sorry, I'm quite reluctant to giving out personal information. I really do appreciate the "tit-for-tat" attitude of putting the "tat" first, but that's as far as it goes. Hold it against me if you will, but that's simply the way it is.iwire said:
The rules for this forum require being in the electrical or related trades. I meet that requirement and that's all you really need to know.
- Location
- Massachusetts
e57 said:
I don't.
Well that is not how I get 120/240 to my house.
There is a single phase pole mounted pot feeding my house and others, it's power is derived from one phase of 13.8 and the MGN.
It's output is 120/240 single phase.
It is not in any conventional definition 'two phase' any more than 3 ph 4 W is 'four phase'.
e57
Senior Member
- Location
- San Francisco, CA
So we're talking about whats at your house Bob? Thats not fair...
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