Is it wrong to know to much?

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Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

Dear Sir, IMpersonally going to see the inspectors Dec,21 AM . I will personally walk through the job sight and show them the unprofessional work. And leave it in there hands. I would feel much better knowing the ahj has seen the shotty work. Thanks Again and Happy Holidays!!!!!!
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

Originally posted by Glenn Sand:


I've pretty well read this whole thread and not once did I read what should've been brought up in the beginning when the question was asked. A lot of off-topic discussion has been devoted to mostly nothing that solves or addresses the real problems here.
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Welcome and congrats on you first and maybe last post. If you're looking for direct answers that do not go off topic or to be handled with kid gloves you won't like it here. Mostly it is all in fun but sometimes things get heated. that is the beauty of the Internet. Nobody gets hurt!

And by the way, there were several proper answers given through this thread.

[ December 20, 2005, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

Dear Mr. Glen Sand, I just got off the phone with the electrical inspector for that area I went over some items that were of most importantance,one was changing the dishwaher and disposal putting them on seperate dedicated circuits. I will not mention the rest but the new sheetrock will be removed in order to repair the electrical problems. Thank you so much for your profesional insight. It may save many lives. Happy hoidays and agood new year.
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

Originally posted by butch:
I just got off the phone with the electrical inspector for that area I went over some items that were of most importantance,one was changing the dishwaher and disposal putting them on seperate dedicated circuits. It may save many lives.
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What code did you cite for this "Violation"?
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

Originally posted by Glenn Sand: I have held General Electrical Administrator's license + Master's and Journeyman electrician's licenses in Washington State since 1973 and I believe that qualifies me to speak here.

What is one more paycheck here or there in comparison to the possible loss of life and property?

Who are you people anyway?
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I also hold an Electrical Administrator's License (General) in Washington State, along with a Professional Engineer License in five states (including WA). I saw nothing in the description to convince me that this project represents a hazard to life or property. So I think your soapbox speech was out of line. We are all professionals. None of us would intentionally leave a job in a condition that violates the NEC. None of us wants to see a customer get injured or worse.

The fundamental question seemed to me to be whether or not a person who sees a violation is required, by law, by professional ethics, or by a sense of personal responsibility, to report it. I saw "yes" answers and I saw "no" answers. My answer would be "yes."

But I also saw conflicting information that has yet to be reconciled. I am not certain what wires come into or out of the box in question. Is the incoming wire a 12/3 or a set of two or more 12/2? Nor do I understand how a GFCI device comes into play. What is being supplied by the GFCI device? There is talk of a microwave, a dishwasher, and a disposal, none of which require a GFCI. The things in a kitchen that do require GFCI are the countertop receptacles, and those circuits cannot also supply a permanently installed appliance.

So Mr. Butch, I think you need to understand that we cannot help you if we do not understand your question. And for the record, in case you did not pick this up from the others who have said the same thing, it IS NOT an NEC violation to power a dishwasher and a disposal from the same circuit. If you overload a circuit with two or more large appliances, that is a different matter. But you did not give us the appliance ratings. So please do not claim to be preventing a future tragedy, unless there is a real violation, and not just a violation of your own desires. So far, you have not described a real violation.

[ December 20, 2005, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: charlie b ]
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

Originally posted by Glenn Sand:
Who are you people anyway? :roll:
There are some guys here that have forgotten more than you will ever know. Just ask them.
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Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

"Dear Sir, IMpersonally going to see the inspectors Dec,21 AM . I will personally walk through the job sight and show them the unprofessional work. And leave it in there hands. I would feel much better knowing the ahj has seen the shotty work. Thanks Again and Happy Holidays!!!!!! "
Doing so is called TRESS PASSING and you could be fined and or jailed.You are not the ahj and have no legal right to enter the property.I am thinking your just out to even a score.
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

"Jim, it's not trespassing if the AHJ invites him along, c'mon. "
It very much so is and the ahj is crossing a very fine line in doing so.Should he get hurt just who's insurance will pay.He is not a county employee and has no buisness being there.
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

To all concerned: Ive been in the electrical field for appx.29 years, If you think Im wrong talk to the inspector yourself "Ed"He is in the inspectors seat, the poject is in altamonte springs. Maybe he can explain beter than I can.He will be there today,From what I gather.Im not making things up Im just trying to save lives. Thanks to the forum people who stood behind me, but still Merry Holidays to all.
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

We're all right there behind you, Butch. We're not going to tell you want you want to hear, and have you burst into the inspector's office ranting about a (not) overfilled box and lose face.

IMO, the best approach was to say, "Hey, I think these folks are operating without a permit, and I saw some things I think you need to see, would you like to check this out?"

Whatever you said, you have acted, and the work is getting inspected. You've done good. :)

Merry Christmas to you! :)
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

Originally posted by georgestolz: We're all right there behind you, Butch.
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I'm not. I support reporting what you perceive to be a hazard. But your responsibility ends there. I agree wholeheartedly with Jim Walker, that if you go to the site without the permission of the owner, you would be trespassing. The AHJ has a right to inspect, but no right to bring along a visitor.
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

Originally posted by butch:I'm just trying to save lives.
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Did you miss these previous statements of mine?
Originally posted by charlie b: And for the record, in case you did not pick this up from the others who have said the same thing, it IS NOT an NEC violation to power a dishwasher and a disposal from the same circuit. . . . So far, you have not described a real violation.
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There are no lives to be saved here. And I reiterate that, based on what you have described so far, there is no violation here.
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

I will let you how many violation sheets the inspector comes up with tomarow.
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

Originally posted by georgestolz: We're all right there behind you, Butch.
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Originally posted by charlie b: I'm not.
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Whoops! Didn't mean to speak for all! :D

Agreed, the methods were questionable.

IMO, the AHJ is out of bounds inviting a visitor. If I invited myself along, I would expect most the inspectors I know to tell me to take a hike, they can inspect without my supervision. As in, "Thanks for bringing this to our attention, now get lost. We might let you know what we write up, but have no obligation to. Thank you, come again." :D

If I were an inspector, I would not want the person who stepped forward present; and if I stepped forward, I would not want to be present.

But trespassing would be the last reason that comes to mind. :D

[ December 22, 2005, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

Originally posted by butch: I will let you how many violation sheets the inspector comes up with tomarow.
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I wager anyone a "Makers Mark on the rocks" against your comparably priced favorite drink that "dishwasher and disposal on same circuit" won't be on the list (unless, of course, they draw too much current for the rating of the circuit, but we weren't given that info).
 
Re: Is it wrong to know to much?

we've heard nothing .. any one check the obituaries?
 
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