Is my 3-way switch economical ?

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Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

To anyone interested:

I believe relay logic was used by the phone companies to design their switching systems. Nowadays they use something called "Time Division Multiplexing", although I am sure there are a few of the Strowger switches still around.

I believe also that relay logic was used in industrial controls with which a number of you are familiar.
 
Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

Seasons Greetings, All.
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That's weird--it's like your B & C drawings were generated by two different minds.
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Not sure what you mean, George. There is only one basic schematic for all multi-point switching circuits.

3way6.gif


All of the half-dozen or more possible (legal) cable layouts that could be used are actually that same schematic. The only difference is the cable routing.

If you are referring to the color code, I have always used the red wire of a three-wire cable for switched wires, where there is a choice between red or black. It's just a habit.

Ed
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Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

I believe also that relay logic was used in industrial controls with which a number of you are familiar.
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In the 1960s GE had a plug-in-module industrial control system consisting of AND, OR, Timer, etc, modules.

In principle, isn't any control "system", that consists of more than one control device, a "logic" system?

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Ed
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Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

If you are referring to the color code, I have always used the red wire of a three-wire cable for switched wires, where there is a choice between red or black. It's just a habit.
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That's what I had reference to, we all have habits like that. But a habit isn't displayed by the difference between B & C. No biggie, just seemed kinda weird, that's all. :D
 
Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

But George, this actually has a potential to be useful for something.
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I'll read along and try to learn what you guys are talking about, but I can't chime in because I am so ignorant of what you guys are discussing, I couldn't even pose a valid question! :D
 
Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

Aelectricman

I think your design is fine but you did ask if it where economical.

If you would have hit the common on your first switch and went to your second switch with your travelers and back to the laminaire with your black from the second switch you would have saved one wire nut or splice in your first switch box.

Ronald :)

[ December 25, 2004, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]
 
Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

Hello Al

Here is Als four way light switch.When I first saw it I didn't think it would work you have to study it carefully.


:)

[ December 25, 2004, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: ronaldrc ]
 
Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

George,

The first time I ran into this switch setup was when I was apprenticing in Fremont, Nebraska, and I found little detached garages fed with two 14/2 UF. Two 3way switches with the light at the back door of the house tagged off the 3way just inside the door, and another light on the side of the garage tagged off the 3way inside the garage.

The outlet inside the garage stayed hot no matter whether the lights were on or off and both light (at house and at garage) went on and off together.

It was years before I saw it again.

By then I was working in dwellings wired mostly in metal flex and I found it in long hallways that had 3ways and more than one light. Outlets in the adjacent beds were fed off the switches.

At this point, I paid attention and yet, it still took me a couple years before I memorized the switching.

I don't use it often, but I get a kick out of using it when I do. And, knowing it sure has saved my bacon several times when troubleshooting.
 
Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

AL I usually don't have any problem troubleshooting three and fourways but I don't think I could this one.

It is a very Inventive scheme.It saves one conductor but I would rather add the extra wire than to cause the problems this could cause.

Ronald :)
 
Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

I don't know if I can even commit it to memory! It just works against logic, but works!

So, eliminating the fourway (which is serving to confuse me more), essentially you've got the common as the same on both sides, a switchleg and a power as a traveller on each side, and it would work.

So, with a 14-2, the white would be common, and the black would be connected to the switchleg traveller, and to the other light.

Right? :D
 
Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

If I save one wirenut per room, 20 wirenuts per house, 500 wirenuts per year, 15000 wirenuts in my lifetime. :D Does anyone know the cost of 15000 wirenuts?
 
Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

Ron,

Why does your diagram suggest that you may be able to use
14/3 for the switch loop part of the circuit?

That is forbidden by the NEC, so I highly doubt any code, even a local one, would allow that.
 
Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

George,

Yes, that is essentially exactly the way I remember it. I think only of the two switch set up, that is, two 3ways.

The 3way commons are tied together with a single wire that does nothing else.

One traveller is connected to the branch circuit hot and is always hot in any switch position. (One can take the hot off and continue the circuit at the far end if the neutral is brought along as an extra conductor.

The other traveller is the switched leg and can be used for the luminaires at either end.

I never have gotten around to thinking through a color scheme. . .just gotta make sure the return to the luminaire is not re-identified. I like the way you described the black / white color scheme.

edit to add last sentence

[ December 25, 2004, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: al hildenbrand ]
 
Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

Peter some locations use to allow 14/3 for switch loops on a 3 ways.If you will read under the wire going across the top I ask to check with your local Building dept. before using. :)
 
Re: Is my 3-way switch economical ?

Originally posted by ronaldrc:
Peter some locations use to allow 14/3 for switch loops on a 3 ways.If you will read under the wire going across the top I ask to check with your local Building dept. before using. :)
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Maybe we're not on the same page here. Are you saying that you can throw #14 travellers into a #12 circuit? That's not what you're really trying to say, is it?

Because, sure, you can use three-wire for threeways. But it has to remain the same size.
 
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