Is my boss treating me unfairly?

[Jacob guppy]

Hello, i am an apprentice electrician and recently got hired (about 2-3 months ago) by a residential electrician. It is just me and him doing work going from house to house Monday through Friday. Before this I attended a trade school straight out of high school. It was a school that taught the basics. I attended for approximately 6 months until I found a job and it helped me to hit the ground running so to speak. I did not walk into the job blind not knowing a thing. Recently I have felt that my boss has been treating me unfairly. My boss pays me for 40 hours a week the only exception being if I work until 8 o clock at night which has happened. I have also worked until 5 or 6 some nights and have not gotten paid any extra money. If I’m not working until 5 or 6 it is at least until 3:30-4:00. I arrive at his house everyday at 7 unless he says otherwise. Sometimes he tells me to be there by 6 or 6:30 and I do as told no complaints.


One day my boss tells to me that his old employee (who left for a big company) would sometimes sit on his phone for some time after he was finished eating lunch. He told me how much that agitated him so I never did that. My boss also said he does not like to stop working and sit down and eat and that if we are going to eat it will be in the truck on the way to the next job site. I am a very understanding person and even these two things did not have me questioning the fairness of the situation. I get that he’s running a business and time sitting down eatting could be time working. Therefore I just agreed and did as I was told.

Recently he got frustrated with me because I didn’t know what one of the supplies were. I asked him what it was and what it’s purpose was and he got aggravated. I was just trying to learn so that i could have more knowledge and be a better employee. Instead of him telling me what it was he decided to question my schooling and tell me that they did a crappy job of teaching me. He then went on to say that I must have not payed any attention because I should know what this was. It was something he later told me on the way home called a mud ring. Used to put a plastic face plate on a metal 4 square. After a few more questions he began to tell me that I either need to go to another school and learn everything or “just figure it out” because He doesn’t have the time to teach me. I just don’t understand where he is coming from considering the fact that he pays me only $11 an hour (minimum wage where I am) and it’s a push pull relationship where I do grunt work and get paid poorly and he teaches me some things. I give a little he gives a little and I was ok with that until he said he doesn’t have time to teach me. I would not have signed up for this job if I thought that he wasn’t going to teach me. You cannot cut corners or have the best of both worlds so to speak. I think that if I didn’t need to be taught anything then my paycheck would be bigger.

 

[ptonsparky]

Fair or not at least you know how he intends to treat you. Eating in the truck between jobs happens. Working overtime and not getting paid for it shouldn’t nor should you accept it. Find another job before quitting this one but don’t slam the door behind you. You have just gained some experience.

 

[kwired]

Quite honestly if you are only getting minimum wage and being treated like that, don't even wait for the next job before quitting. You can always find some other minimum wage job as a temporary thing if you had to, food service, retail, etc. go through a lot of people. They are not always a great job either, but usually not as bad as you described, and you usually won't have such long shifts that you don't have time to look for the job you want.

 

[ptonsparky]

Quite honestly if you are only getting minimum wage and being treated like that, don't even wait for the next job before quitting. You can always find some other minimum wage job as a temporary thing if you had to, food service, retail, etc. go through a lot of people. They are not always a great job either, but usually not as bad as you described, and you usually won't have such long shifts that you don't have time to look for the job you want.

I think we paid the last know nothing apprentice $13 plus he got OT, Holidays, etc. No health ins.

 

[__dan]

Anything with the hours worked will be very strictly regulated by statute and enforced. That would be the place to start. Try to discuss and come to an agreement (you are in the position of accepting his offer). If the week is 40 only or 40 plus overtime. Keep your own timecard if he does not have one for you. There has to be some arrangement or method of getting you off the clock if he wants to continue working late but does not want to pay your overtime.

In any wage dispute, essentially he would not be negotiating with you. He would have to satisfy the labor dept (hearing of your wage dispute complaint).

If he can make good on the paycheck every week (paying your worked hours), you can continue working for him. Essentially you can go on to many other jobs, but they are all just as bad.

Make sure it's a legit apprenticeship with properly documented hours in the manner the State requires.

Leave the cell phone at home, especially if the boss has already commented about not liking it. I feel the same way about it. If I see a guy always has a phone to his face, I'm going to think he is distracted and not focused on the work.

Food is what gets the work done (my rule). I work in all types of conditions except for hunger. If I get hungry the work stops.

 

[kwired]

I think we paid the last know nothing apprentice $13 plus he got OT, Holidays, etc. No health ins.

Plus if he worked until 8:00 you likely paid him, and probably let him take at least a small break now and then. For conditions described in OP, I'd be applying at McDonalds or a C store before staying at his current job, and probably would have when I was his age as well (of course minimum wage was only like 3.50 to 4.00 or so back then). My first electrical job wasn't much over minimum but didn't take all that long to get a raise from what I remember.

 

[Coppersmith]

Jacob, you should look up the local IBEW apprenticeship school and give them a call. Everything you mentioned is an abuse that would not be tolerated by any union member. If you join the apprenticeship, they will pay you more, teach you more, and protect you from these abuses. You live in a strong union state. Take advantage of that.

 

[Jamesco]

Jacob, you should look up the local IBEW apprenticeship school and give them a call. Everything you mentioned is an abuse that would not be tolerated by any union member. If you join the apprenticeship, they will pay you more, teach you more, and protect you from these abuses. You live in a strong union state. Take advantage of that.

+1

At the very least for now ask the IBEW Electrical Workers Local Union Hall or possibly the JATC if they are hiring electrician helpers. At least then he can start working in the trade and sign up for the apprenticeship. Just a guess the sign up period for the apprenticeship has passed for 2018. Working as a helper will give him hands on experience which will help him at the JATC apprenticeship interview next year.

 

[mbrooke]

Jacob, you should look up the local IBEW apprenticeship school and give them a call. Everything you mentioned is an abuse that would not be tolerated by any union member. If you join the apprenticeship, they will pay you more, teach you more, and protect you from these abuses. You live in a strong union state. Take advantage of that.

+2


Some people just can't teach. I'll leave it at that. Also in 2018 you deserve better. Gone are the days when being a jerk was considered an effective method of achieving knowledge or character.

 

[goldstar]

Fair or not at least you know how he intends to treat you. Eating in the truck between jobs happens. Working overtime and not getting paid for it shouldn’t nor should you accept it. Find another job before quitting this one but don’t slam the door behind you. You have just gained some experience.

I agree - get out now. It's not going to get any better. If you're getting an hourly wage you deserve to get paid for every hour you work. If you work over 40 hours in a week you deserve overtime pay. Try to leave on a friendly basis if possible. Contact your State labor board to see if you can get any back pay but you'll need documentation for proof.

 

[mlnk]

Documentation means a written contemporaneous record of time arrived at work and time released from engagement in work activity. A 30 minute (or 60 minute) lunch break is not counted as working time. A 15 minute break every 2 hours is generally counted as work time. Travel time is more complicated. Travel time from home to place of work and back home is called commuting and is not counted as work time, but could be counted if the distance is excessive as agreed upon with the employer. Travel time in a company vehicle or from job to job generally is work time, unless there is a special agreement, such as half pay as travel compensation. A lunch break in a traveling vehicle is a good question....I don't know about that. But I think trying to get paid for the extra hours in the past with weak documentation is a lost cause, ask the labor board if they agree. If you start now keeping careful track of hours, I think the accounting should be given to the employer on a weekly basis. Then the issue will be resolved. If you are terminated - so be it. Working overtime for free is unfair.
Electricians are constantly learning new stuff by observation, reading, etc. I would not worry about the boss saying you should know this already, they should have taught this or that..some people are just complainers.

 

[Fulthrotl]

After a few more questions he began to tell me that I either need to go to another school and learn everything.....

do what your boss told you to do. call up the ibew local you'd like to become a member of, and apply for apprenticeship.

he has taught you everything you can learn there. on the forum here, we leave unions out of our discussions as strong
opinions abound.

and compensation varies widely from one local to another.

"The average total annual compensation for a DWP worker
for the year ending September 2015 was $136,100, according
to a recent report commissioned by the utility's Office of
Public Accountability.


That figure includes a $99,500 salary, $14,500 in retirement
contributions and $22,100 in medical and other benefits."

it's 15% above that now.

 

[petersonra]

It appears to me that not only is he treating you unfairly but also illegally in not paying you for all the hours you are working.

if you are being paid minimum wage, start looking for something better.

 

[growler]

Hello, i am an apprentice electrician and recently got hired (about 2-3 months ago) by a residential electrician. It is just me and him doing work going from house to house Monday through Friday.


Recently he got frustrated with me because I didn’t know what one of the supplies were. I asked him what it was and what it’s purpose was and he got aggravated. I was just trying to learn so that i could have more knowledge and be a better employee. Instead of him telling me what it was he decided to question my schooling and tell me that they did a crappy job of teaching me. He then went on to say that I must have not payed any attention because I should know what this was. It was something he later told me on the way home called a mud ring. Used to put a plastic face plate on a metal 4 square. After a few more questions he began to tell me that I either need to go to another school and learn everything or “just figure it out” because He doesn’t have the time to teach me.

I would think that you should look for another job.

Normally you have to teach a green helper every thing and he should know that.
What makes a good helper is one that listens when you try to teach them what to do and what's expected.

You should be paid for all the time you are working. I wonder if he is paying unemployment tax or has you covered by insurance.

 

[Strathead]

I would also like to leave unions out of this. They are an option open to you but by no means the only one. As others have stated what he is doing is illegal. I have done many things above and beyond what can be required of me through the years, willingly. I feel I have been treated fairly for the most part. What you describe, if accurate, is not being treated fairly. Federal law is pretty straight forward and I encourage you to do some internet research on it to verify EXACTLY what it says, but here are a few points. Again, working for a good boss, I would not ever challenge them on each specific item, just like I would not expect my boss to dock me because I spent a few extra minutes on the toilet, which he would be legally entitled to do.

1. You are required to be paid from the time and place you are required to report to work to the time and place you are released from work. This means that if the boss tells you you have to be at the shop, that is where. If he tells you that your work place and start time is a job site, but that you are welcome to come tot he shop instead and ride in the company vehicle then he can pay you from the time you arrive at the job site to the time you leave. He also can't require you to use your personal vehicle to get from one job to another during the work day without compensation and agreement from you.
2. No matter the state, anything over 40 hours in a week is overtime. In many states there are more stringent requirements.
3. As others stated somewhat correctly, you are not entitled to compensation for lunch, but Federal law requires a 10 minute (may be 15) paid break in the middle of every 4 hour continuous work period. So an employer can work you 5 hours in the morning, lunch and then 3 hours afternoon and only give you one break in the morning.

My approach for you would be, expect to get fired first and foremost. I would then tell your boss the basic law and that in the future if he wants you to work overtime he needs to pay you for it, politely. If he says ok, then fine, no harm no foul. Move forward. If not, I would go to the labor board and report him. You will get compensated for every hour of overtime you can document that he failed to pay you and he will pay a fine also. He won't treat the next employee the same way.

 

[ggunn]

My advice - free, and worth every penny:

Stand up for yourself without being a jerk. If he isn't paying you for your time, go home. If he can't take that, let him fire you; if you've lasted long enough it may qualify you for unemployment. He may not fire you, though; if things are as bad as you say, he'll have trouble replacing you.

Start (and never stop) looking for another job with better conditions and pay. When you interview for your next job, though, do NOT tell them what you have posted here. No matter how bad things were at your last job, going negative on a former employer is one of the surest ways to get yourself removed for consideration for a new position. Been there, done that, lost out.

Above all, have faith that things will get better. Work hard, be honest, and always be on the lookout for an opportunity. You'll be OK.

 

[gadfly56]

Jacob, you should look up the local IBEW apprenticeship school and give them a call. Everything you mentioned is an abuse that would not be tolerated by any union member. If you join the apprenticeship, they will pay you more, teach you more, and protect you from these abuses. You live in a strong union state. Take advantage of that.

Without offering an opinion on unions generally, I would observe that as an option it very much depends on the locality. A local may not be accepting new applications, or even if they are you may not get a slot for months or even years. My wife's uncle was in 696, the local sprinkler fitters union here. He tried for 2+ years to get his son-in-law an apprentice slot, all to no avail.

 

[petersonra]

Without offering an opinion on unions generally, I would observe that as an option it very much depends on the locality. A local may not be accepting new applications, or even if they are you may not get a slot for months or even years. My wife's uncle was in 696, the local sprinkler fitters union here. He tried for 2+ years to get his son-in-law an apprentice slot, all to no avail.

A lot of unions require prospective apprentices take a test and they accept as apprentices those who do best on the test that meet the other requirements. Perhaps SIL did not test out so well.

It used to be you could get in as a journeyman in a lot of different unions via the envelope full of cash under the BA's door route. My understanding is that does not happen anymore, or if it does it is very rare. You pretty much have to get accepted as an apprentice and do the work and the schooling and learn the needed skills.

 

[Strathead]

My advice - free, and worth every penny:

Stand up for yourself without being a jerk. If he isn't paying you for your time, go home. If he can't take that, let him fire you; if you've lasted long enough it may qualify you for unemployment. He may not fire you, though; if things are as bad as you say, he'll have trouble replacing you.

Start (and never stop) looking for another job with better conditions and pay. When you interview for your next job, though, do NOT tell them what you have posted here. No matter how bad things were at your last job, going negative on a former employer is one of the surest ways to get yourself removed for consideration for a new position. Been there, done that, lost out.

Above all, have faith that things will get better. Work hard, be honest, and always be on the lookout for an opportunity. You'll be OK.

Great great advice.

 

[gadfly56]

A lot of unions require prospective apprentices take a test and they accept as apprentices those who do best on the test that meet the other requirements. Perhaps SIL did not test out so well.

It used to be you could get in as a journeyman in a lot of different unions via the envelope full of cash under the BA's door route. My understanding is that does not happen anymore, or if it does it is very rare. You pretty much have to get accepted as an apprentice and do the work and the schooling and learn the needed skills.

SIL topped out in the testing, interviewed well, and was a top candidate. They took no one during that time. Too many members were already "on the beach". That's what I was driving at regarding variations in local opportunities.