Is there a way to prevent my homemade ringer from getting fried?

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Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
I guess I don't understand why folks are pulling all the same color wires in conduit and then ringing them out later to identify them? I've always used number tags and labeled the wires before I pulled them in.:confused:

Label wire, cover labels with tape prior to pulling, stick matching number label to the side of the spool, pull wire in, pull label off spool and attach to wire, cut. Done.:cool:
 
C

Cold Fusion

Senior Member
Location
way north
Cow said:
I guess I don't understand why folks are pulling all the same color wires in conduit and then ringing them out later to identify them? I've always used number tags and labeled the wires before I pulled them in.:confused:---
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Gentle suggestion - Per post 19, I don't think that is what the poster is doing.

cf
 
C

Cold Fusion

Senior Member
Location
way north
wireguru said:
this seems like a bad idea all the way around, from the potential for mislabeling to the potential of electrical shock or starting a fire when you connect your radioshack rigged up alarm thing to 120v.

You should be using the proper tool for the job, a wire sorter. Greenlee makes one, model 5775VS I think its $500

http://www.mygreenlee.com/Products/...=showGreenleeProductTemplate&upc_number=34542
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Those are nice tools. As I recall isn't it clearly marked, "Not for use on energized circuits"?

Humm, I wonder if it would have a, "potential of electrical shock or starting a fire when you connect your Greenlee model 5775VS to 120v.:roll:

Yes, I'm poking fun at you - only cause I thought your response was a bit hard.

I've built and used plenty of special tooling, when I couldn't get what I wanted. Special tooling always has limitiations - but then again, so does store bought.

cf
 
C

Cold Fusion

Senior Member
Location
way north
zappy said:
Finally a answer to my question. Yeah i try not to put it on a live circuit. ---
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I think iwire is right - your best bet is to be more careful. All tooling have limitations.

I doubt you can get a relay to work. Fast relays are what? 10ms maybe - that a half cycle plus, more than enough time for 170V peak to hit your device.

If I had to do this, I'd be looking at maybe an SCR, with a turn-on delay, driven by a voltage sensing circuit. Getting complicated.

zappy said:
---. I've fried two in the span of 15 years or so. But it still pisses me off.
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Are these $10 dollars or $500? If they are $10, didn't explode or exhibit catastrophic, dangerous failure, maybe it's a case of, "That's not too bad - I'll have to get over being pissed off."

Generally speaking, when I do that sort of stuff, it's not the tool I upset with.

cf
 
W

wireguru

Senior Member
Cold Fusion said:
Those are nice tools. As I recall isn't it clearly marked, "Not for use on energized circuits"?

Humm, I wonder if it would have a, "potential of electrical shock or starting a fire when you connect your Greenlee model 5775VS to 120v.:roll:

Yes, I'm poking fun at you - only cause I thought your response was a bit hard.

I've built and used plenty of special tooling, when I couldn't get what I wanted. Special tooling always has limitiations - but then again, so does store bought.

cf
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actually, while the greenlee model is marked 'not for use on energized circuits' both halves of the test set feature high voltage warning lights that illuminate if line voltage is present. This gives you an important safety feature which should prevent the concerns I posted above, and it leads me to believe line voltage wont damage the unit -you just shouldnt be using it live, and it might not be able to sort the wires with line voltage present.

Ideal also makes one that does 6 wires for $60, but it just measures the value of a bunch of resistors to sort the wires, the greenlee is much, much better
 
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zappy

zappy

Senior Member
Location
CA.
Cold Fusion said:
I think iwire is right - your best bet is to be more careful. All tooling have limitations.

I doubt you can get a relay to work. Fast relays are what? 10ms maybe - that a half cycle plus, more than enough time for 170V peak to hit your device.

If I had to do this, I'd be looking at maybe an SCR, with a turn-on delay, driven by a voltage sensing circuit. Getting complicated.


Are these $10 dollars or $500? If they are $10, didn't explode or exhibit catastrophic, dangerous failure, maybe it's a case of, "That's not too bad - I'll have to get over being pissed off."

Generally speaking, when I do that sort of stuff, it's not the tool I upset with.

cf
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There like $15.00. No they don't blow up or anything, and yes i'm more mad at myself for not knowing the circuit was live.
 
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220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
I use the home made continuity testers built with Radio Shack parts.
9V battery, a battery terminal connector, a couple of alligator leads, a piezo speaker and some tape.

I did accidentally fry one once. It beeps really loud for a couple seconds, then nothing. I have considered putting some kind of inline protection but , at a cost of $5, I just volt test the wires first and deal with an occaisional malfunction.



DSC02066.jpg


DSC02067.jpg
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
220/221 said:
I use the home made continuity testers built with Radio Shack parts.
9V battery, a battery terminal connector, a couple of alligator leads, a piezo speaker and some tape.

I did accidentally fry one once. It beeps really loud for a couple seconds, then nothing. I have considered putting some kind of inline protection but , at a cost of $5, I just volt test the wires first and deal with an occaisional malfunction.
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So what exactly does this test?

Continuity?
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
cadpoint said:
So what exactly are you listening for! :grin:
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Do you tie your GFI lines & loads together?

Power and switch legs to test between switch boxes and fixtures?

How do you test 3- and 4-way switch loops?


Seems like an awful lot of time just to test for just continuity.

And if you had two wires with two clips per end, it'd be a phone!, wait there's no reciever
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A butt set and toner will work.
 
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2

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
OK, let's say you pull a bunch of wires in a pipe all the same color. Now after rough pull you want to identify them
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Although not on subject, I will never forget the residential troubleshoot I did years ago for an electrical engineer.

1/2 emt with 12 black #14's, The circuit had 4 1G jboxes between the two sets of 3ways/4ways and I don't remember what else. JB's were nearly inaccessible in garage storage rooms, ceiling light JB's...bad times. Took forever to ring out, label and rewire that mess.

Back on subject, I can see the benefit of ringing out a house after sheetrock, prior to finish but you would have to do a lot of extra work to get continuity thru the roughed in circuit and you'd have to deal with the fixtures/switch legs.
 
2

220/221

Senior Member
Location
AZ
480sparky said:
So what exactly does this test?

Continuity?
Click to expand...


Yeah. It's a straight continuity tester.

The fluke has one built in but this one is cheap, fits in my bag and has alligator clips. Clip it on a pair of wires in one area and you can easily hear it from another.

It's a quick incandescant light bulb tester too :cool:
 
cadpoint

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
480sparky said:
Do you tie your GFI lines & loads together?
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I had to memorize that, and is just enough some time to remember all that :grin:

Power and switch legs to test between switch boxes and fixtures?
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No I don't, I go on the Quality of the manufactured process.
How do you test 3- and 4-way switch loops?
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Colors
Seems like an awful lot of time just to test for just continuity.
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Alot of postive anwsers have be presented and some disqualified!

A butt set and toner will work.
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Shhhh, I said that, & was DQ'd

It's all Good, Ya'll be Safe!
 
480sparky

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
cadpoint said:
I had to memorize that, and is just enough some time to remember all that :grin:


No I don't, I go on the Quality of the manufactured process.

Colors

Alot of postive anwsers have be presented and some disqualified!

Shhhh, I said that, & was DQ'd

It's all Good, Ya'll be Safe!
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You don't get me.

You need to tie your power and switch legs together to test past the switches that are not present at rough-in. Same for line-load GFI protection.

Colors? How do you test colors on your 3- and 4-way switches?


And I really don't understand "I had to memorize that, and is just enough some time to remember all that"
 
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