readydave8
re member
- Location
- Clarkesville, Georgia
- Occupation
- electrician
Not anymore due to back flow preventers
Is this a legit install ?
- Thread starter goldstar
- Start date
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hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
In the Dominican Republic, they have 10 gallon water heaters in each bathroom. The master bath at the house I stayed at had a 30 gallon with a 105 gallon Jacuzzi tub. Yeah, that was about worthless! The owner finally changed it to two gas tankless water heaters.
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Well, I lived on Marco for many years. When I first moved there in the 80s and saw water heaters cord and plug connected I was told that this was a SW Florida thing and everyone did them that way. Not only is it a violation and always has been, most are using NEMA 10-30 120/240 dryer cords which is the wrong configuration even if cord and plug was allowed it should be a 6-30 240 cord.
Another issue was that many of the earlier small condos originally had 3500 watt WHs connected with 20 amp cord and recep. As time went on the plumbers would come along and install a new 4500 watt replacement WH and use the same cord and plug. Of course, over time the recep/cord cap would fail and there were some fires due to this.
Another issue was that many of the earlier small condos originally had 3500 watt WHs connected with 20 amp cord and recep. As time went on the plumbers would come along and install a new 4500 watt replacement WH and use the same cord and plug. Of course, over time the recep/cord cap would fail and there were some fires due to this.
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
While 422.13 would require at least a 25A OCPD for a 4500W water heater, just looking at the cord and plug, isn't a 20A cord and plug rated for 20A continuously?
Cheers, Wayne
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
No, only 80% rated. And yes the the 20 amp breaker and #12 conductors were also too small but many held for years but we also often found long term heat/arcing damage to the breaker bus connection. It didn't help that in this time frame many were Zinsco panels.
wwhitney
Senior Member
- Location
- Berkeley, CA
- Occupation
- Retired
Do you have an NEC reference, and is the plug the weak leak? The cord ampacity is given by Table 400.5(A)(1), and ampacity is a continuous rating.
Cheers, Wayne
I’m not following where we differ?
I have the same understanding.
its not listed for cord and plug connections
400.12(1) wouldn’t be relevant. A water heater isn’t a structure
422.16 Flexible Cords.
(A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent inter‐ change or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration or (2) to facilitate the removal or disconnection of appliances that are fastened in place, where the fastening means and mechani‐ cal connections are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance or repair and the appliance is inten‐ ded or identified for flexible cord connection.
Again, the solid piping alone doesnt allow or “permit ready removal for maintenance or repair”
(A) General. Flexible cord shall be permitted (1) for the connection of appliances to facilitate their frequent inter‐ change or to prevent the transmission of noise or vibration or (2) to facilitate the removal or disconnection of appliances that are fastened in place, where the fastening means and mechani‐ cal connections are specifically designed to permit ready removal for maintenance or repair and the appliance is inten‐ ded or identified for flexible cord connection.
Again, the solid piping alone doesnt allow or “permit ready removal for maintenance or repair”
One could argue that the presence of unions in the piping would permit ready removal. Interestingly, I don’t see any unions in the picture!
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I agree. But, if it was the plumber who did the install he probably wasn't qualified or authorized to make that change. Seeing as how it was set up for plug-and-play he took the less complicated way out. I'm guessing the house had to be inspected. If I was the EI, I wound not have passed this just bsed on that alone.
drcampbell
Senior Member
- Location
- The Motor City, Michigan USA
- Occupation
- Registered Professional Engineer
Are those commonly used? I don't think I've ever seen one in a house.
This was clearly a non-union job!
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
They are either together with the pressure regulator, or at the street at the meter. Very common. Not needed with well systems because of the pressure tank for the well pump, but if a regulator/check valve is installed after the tank, then they are required.
drcampbell
Senior Member
- Location
- The Motor City, Michigan USA
- Occupation
- Registered Professional Engineer
I don't think I've ever seen a pressure regulator in a house, either.
(except to separate the domestic water from the hydronic heating, where installed)
(except to separate the domestic water from the hydronic heating, where installed)
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
The city water pressure in my area runs about 90-110 PSI so a PRV is a must for us to keep it around 65 PSI.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
Most cities require them, if they have a break on a main line, if you don’t have one, it will suck the water out of your water heater and blow the element.
grich
Senior Member
- Location
- MP89.5, Mason City Subdivision
- Occupation
- Broadcast Engineer
I see that a lot in copper systems. The rationale is when the WH dies, you cut the pipe, then install the replacement using a repair coupling.
Yeah, makes sense. In my own experience, by the time the heater needs replaced, the new ones have been redesigned and the piping has to be modified anyway!
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