Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

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Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

I feel the switch itself is readily accessible but does violate the working space required by 110.26.

However, since there is means to disconnet the equipment and switch at the source of the branch circuit before this disconnect, I do not feel working space can be enforced.
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

I agree with Bryan, the switch is readily accessible. :)

The work space requirement seems to leave room for the inspector to decide if a certain piece of equipment is likely to require servicing while energized. :)
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment.
Sufficient access and working space shall be provided.......
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Hi Bryan,
What about the "Sufficient access" that is required above?

Not to mention, your logic of "since there is means to disconnet the equipment and switch at the source of the branch circuit" can't be found in any codes that I'm aware of!
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Originally posted by websparky:
Not to mention, your logic of "since there is means to disconnect the equipment and switch at the source of the branch circuit" can't be found in any codes that I'm aware of!
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That is true and also you can not find a definition of:

likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized
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There is no reason an inspector has to say that this disconnect falls into that category.

IMO there is sufficient access to the disconnect in Joe's picture.

Would you say that you can not access this switch?
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Originally posted by websparky:
Hi Bryan,
What about the "Sufficient access" that is required above?

Not to mention, your logic of "since there is means to disconnet the equipment and switch at the source of the branch circuit" can't be found in any codes that I'm aware of!
Click to expand...
Bob hit on the point I was trying to make. The term "while energized" is open to interpretation in Section 110.26(A). My point was that since you can deenergize this disconnect switch, there is no reason you would need to work on it energized. So in effect, you can use the above disconnect to deenergize the A/C unit for service, and the branch-circuit OCD can be used to deenergize the disconnect for service.

It is a very weak argument in my opinion, however. I personally would not install a disconnect behind the unit, and would certainly provide adequated and sufficent space. The code is just funny in its wording. :eek:
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

If I was AHJ, I would fail this job because I see an area to where the disconnect could be relocated. Why? Safety. :cool:
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

This is a quote from the hand book that explains the intent of the code article. Remember,the intent.

"The intent of 110.26(A) is to provide enough space for personnel to perform any of the operations listed without jeopardizing worker safety. These operations include examination, adjustment, servicing, and maintenance of equipment."

Now why would one argue about worker safety? Isn't that paramount in your life?
It is in mine.

Imagine for a moment that you could be held responsible for a mishap at this location because you were the one that decided this was a safe install and anyone working on it would be safe unless they were too uneducated to recognize the close proximity of the A/C unit and the dangers that it represents.

This isn't about an inspector asking for something that doesn't exsist, it's about worker safety.
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Let's for sake of conversation say this is a 30 amp non fusible safety switch. We remove it and install a double pole 30 amp toggle switch in it's place.

In this case would we even be talking about clearances, and if so where would we draw a line as to what toggle switches needed to meet this requirement?

There are many light switches above cabinets.

Roger
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

I am going to be honest here and admit I have called for inspections with disconnects located similar to this and passed without question.

Is it my first choice? Heck no.

But when you rough the building you stub out the wire and sometimes it ends up behind the unit.

I do not see the necessity of blowing holes in the outer finish of a building to move this over.

Commonsense should be and is applied when enforcing the code.

Lets say this was an HVAC unit located in a suspended ceiling.

Would you say that the disconnect would have to comply with 110.26?

The building owners will not be impressed when you mark out a 30" x 36" square no storage area on the floor under the disconnect in the ceiling. ;)

110.26(A)(3) Height of Working Space. The work space shall be clear and extend from the grade, floor, or platform to the height required by 110.26(E). Within the height requirements of this section, other equipment that is associated with the electrical installation and is located above or below the electrical equipment shall be permitted to extend not more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond the front of the electrical equipment.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Hi Roger,

For the sake of conversation:

When is the last time you had to work on a light switch live while your back or legs were in contact with a grounded metal cabinet?

If you answer, "Oh just last week", shame on you for working on something live when you were grounded!
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Originally posted by websparky:
This isn't about an inspector asking for something that doesn't exsist, it's about worker safety.
Click to expand...
Dave we just disagree about this being unsafe.

If need to use the switch as a switch I can safely and easily operate it.

If I have to make internal repairs to it I can shut off the feed.

What makes this any more dangerous than a juntion box being located there?

Either can be dangerous when worked on live.
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Hi Bob,

I agree with your example. However, most of the time we install these disconnects, we don't have the rare cases as you suggest. From my experience, when I see an install like the one in the photo, it was the A/C installer that placed the unit in front of the disconnect. Each time that has been the case, the liability has fallen on the A/C installer to move the unit. After a few moves, they get the idea!
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Originally posted by websparky:
When is the last time you had to work on a light switch live while your back or legs were in contact with a grounded metal cabinet?
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Dave why would I have to work on this switch live?

I would have to break out my PPE to even test fuses right?

Wouldn't be easer to just shut off thee feed and ring out the fuses?
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

How could an experienced electrician or an experienced inspector ignor this code article?

110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.
(A) Examination. In judging equipment, considerations such as the following shall be evaluated:
(8) Other factors that contribute to the practical safeguarding of persons using or likely to come in contact with the equipment.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Bob,

It a kin to the helmet law or the seat belt law, someone has to protect the inexperience or the innocent from avoidable hazards.
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Hello Dave, as a matter of fact it was just last week. (Just Kidding) :D

I still ask where do we draw the line for a switch.


Roger
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Roger,

I know what you and Bob are talking about and I agree that there should be better parameters than the existing "blanket" one that we have in place.

Maybe this is something we should work toward for the 2008 cycle?

Until then, the code we have is better than the one in we had in the '70's!
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Hi Dave

Originally posted by websparky:
I agree with your example. However, most of the time we install these disconnects, we don't have the rare cases as you suggest.
Click to expand...
For me that is not rare, we often have dozens of ceiling mounted disconnects for various HVAC units.

I have never seen any HVAC unit moved to suit the electrical inspector.

Bob
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Often this situation comes up when wiring a house.The electrician takes his feed to where he sees AC lines.There is usually no AC man to say what side he will set the unit and the choice is made when he sets the unit.While i would prefer they had got together and avoided this i do not see any real danger.Should it need servicing he can turn it off.Other than if the wires need re done what else would you do to a bad disconnect other than replace it.60 amp pullout disc is worth about $8 just replace it.And when we replace it the feed will be turned off
 
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