Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

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Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

It is my opinion that both the NFPA 70E and the NEC are ammending requirements and even adding new sections that condon and "protect" unsafe work practices.

To use the switch, I dont believe there is a safety hazard. Once someone opens the enclosure, they better be qualified and make all precautions regardless of the A/C unit location, including deenergizing it.

I don't like it when the argument is used for unqualified persons or the "innocent". There is nothing innocent about a person getting into something they have no business to be in. JMO. :eek:

Geez, I don't know why the tiger bit me when I was petting him. I'm an innocent victim. No, your an idiot! :eek:
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Originally posted by websparky:
Bob,

It a kin to the helmet law or the seat belt law, someone has to protect the inexperience or the innocent from avoidable hazards.
Click to expand...
I will never agree to that blanket statement.

I wear a seatbelt and did wear a helmet, by my choice I do not want the Govt. telling me to.

You want to make disconnects safer for the general public? :)

Make it a requirement that you need tools to open the doors on disconnects. :eek: Seriously.
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Originally posted by bphgravity:
Geez, I don't know why the tiger bit me when I was petting him. I'm an innocent victim. No, your an idiot! :D
Click to expand...
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

If I were still in the feild and was called on a service call because this A/C stopped working, the first I would do is open up the disconnect and check for voltage. I have a feeling that nearly everybody here would do the same thing.

In my opinion, this is the type of "examination while energized" that 110.26 is desigend to protect.

Red tag from this guy :(
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Ryan, Glad you do not inspect arond here. :D

I will start taking some pictures arond here.

You would have your PPE on then right? :D

Bob
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Looks like a good ole fasioned pissing contest would ensue here. Which came first the electrician or the hvac.
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Hi Bob. Hear me out for a second though. Lets say you do have to troubleshoot this thing. You go to the panel and measure voltage to the breaker and it is proper. You then measure it at the A/C and you find that you only have one leg of your single phase 240. IMO, you're going to have to open that disco, and you're going to have to do it energized. There is just no reason to drop this A/C right in front of the disco.
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

If this disconnect was 480 volts, I don't think this would even need to be discussed.
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Hey Ryan, It would appear that checking the voltage at the A/C unit would be more precarious than checking it at the switch.

Shouldn't there be some consideration given to the electrical compartment of these units being installed to provide the clearances of 110.26?

Oh Boy, another thing to worry about. ;)

Roger
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

The installation sucks. I can work on this safely by locking out the feed, but why should I have to? What happened to coordination between trades? What are GC's for?
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Ryan I understand what your saying and it is a possibility.

But couldn't we say that about every JB?

When trouble shooting branch circuits it is not unusual to have to do those same tests at JBs.

To me we are running into a conflict, more and more we are learning we are not allowed by OSHA to work on anything live in the first place, but the NEC has rules that talk about space required when working live.

IMO what this means is we have to relearn our troubleshooting methods. We need to do more with a continuity meter than a pair of wiggys. We need to put working live out of our minds.

JMO, Bob
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

I have rethought my reply Ryan is right,if i was the AC man (and i sometimes am for my friends and myself )my first move would be to open the disc.and ck for voltage.Putting on the AC hat changes things a bit.
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Is "working live" checking voltage at the line side of the disconnect? Absolutely not!
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Originally posted by brentp:
Is "working live" checking voltage at the line side of the disconnect? Absolutely not!
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Really? OSHA might diagree with you.

In fact, this is one of the two times that OSHA approves working live, and PPE is required.
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

I'm sorry, but 'working something live' is NOT checking voltage on the line side of a switch.

Doesn't lockout/tagout mean anything?

Brent
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Originally posted by brentp:
I'm sorry, but 'working something live' is NOT checking voltage on the line side of a switch.
Brent
Click to expand...
I agree if you check voltage and find out that there is none. If you find that voltage is present you have worked energized.
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Brent the minute you open the disconnect door you are working live in OSHAs view.

Lock out tag out means a lot, in this case you would have to LOTO indoors at the panel to open the disconnect without PPE on.

I know....it is a little over the top.
 
Re: Is this AC unit switch "readily accessible", o

Remember OHSA is not just trying to protect you from shocks, they want to protect you from flash burns.

If I have the cover of a live panel off and OSHA walks in I better have PPE on, it will not matter that the circuit I am adding is dead, the panel is live.

I know what you mean when you say working live you mean really making connections hot, OSHA rules are much more restrictive.
 
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