Is this device grounded?

[e57]

From another thread, and a pet peeve of mine, I bring you a poll....

Is this device grounded?

If it is not grounded - under what conditions could it be grounded?
If it is grounded - state a code ref...
If it is not grounded - state a code ref...

 

[iwire]

Is it a self grounding device or not?

 

[e57]

Is it a self grounding device or not?

Oooh good catch - NO - it is not a self-grounding device!

 

[iwire]

Oooh good catch - NO - it is not a self-grounding device!

In that case I will say no it is not grounded.

 

[nhfire77]

In that case I will say no it is not grounded.

.......Ditto.

 

[al hildenbrand]

404.9(B)(1) doesn't ask for anything more than metal screws. I say the metal yoke is grounded.

 

[e57]

But, but, but....

'What about 404.9(B)1? It's 'mounted' to a metal box with metal screws???? '

But, but, but....

'It's easier this way.... and the code says....'

But, but, but....

'What if the screws were tighter?'


IMPO it's really not "mounted" - to anything...

 

[e57]

404.9(B)(1) doesn't ask for anything more than metal screws. I say the metal yoke is grounded.

Prove it! Please....

 

[al hildenbrand]

Prove it! Please....

Prove what? The words of the NEC? The continuity of your diagram?

 

[al hildenbrand]

Don't forget 110.13(A).

 

[iwire]

404.9(b)(1) doesn't ask for anything more than metal screws. I say the metal yoke is grounded.

250.4( a )(5).

Stupid software keeps making it a small A.

 

[e57]

Prove what? The words of the NEC? The continuity of your diagram?

What is the device yoke "mounted" to?

Don't forget 110.13(A).

The words "firmly secured" are clearly describing the word "mounting" - nothing in the picture is "firmly secured" to anything, and if it were - it would be secured to sheet-rock - not the metal box...

 

[e57]

250.4( a )(5).

Whould tighter screws pushing the yoke to the sheet-rock make an "Effective Ground Fault Current Path"????

 

[al hildenbrand]

250.4(A)(5)

That is the definition of the very phrase used in the last sentence of 404.9(B) right before the first condition (1).

 

[electricmanscott]

I say it is. But does it meet the NEC requirement? I say no.

 

[al hildenbrand]

What is the device yoke "mounted" to?

The words "firmly secured" are clearly describing the word "mounting" - nothing in the picture is "firmly secured" to anything, and if it were - it would be secured to sheet-rock - not the metal box...

I'll agree that the diagram shows an incomplete installation.

 

[joebell]

250.4( a )(5).

404.9(B)(1) considers the metal mounting screws to the ,properly grounded/bonded, metal box to be an effective ground fault current path.

 

[e57]

That is the definition of the very phrase used in the last sentence of 404.9(B) right before the first condition (1).

How does this install situation fit the condition in 404.9(B)1?????


IMPO this portion of the code should be more clear - but here we are.... :roll:

 

[e57]

I'll agree that the diagram shows an incomplete installation.

Actually most switches are installed this way (Loose and to sheetrock) - but if I do it - they'll be an EGC....

404.9(B)(1) considers the metal mounting screws to the ,properly grounded/bonded, metal box to be an effective ground fault current path.

What is it mounted to? :roll:

 

[al hildenbrand]

Here's the Code

2008 NEC

404.9 Provisions for General-Use Snap Switches.

(B) Grounding. Snap switches, including dimmer and similar control switches, shall be connected to an equipment grounding conductor and shall provide a means to connect metal faceplates to the equipment grounding conductor, whether or not a metal faceplate is installed. Snap switches shall be considered to be part of an effective ground-fault current path if either of the following conditions is met:
(1) The switch is mounted with metal screws to a metal box or metal cover that is connected to an equipment grounding conductor or to a nonmetallic box with integral means for connecting to an equipment grounding conductor.