Is this OK?

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Is this Ok?

Is this Ok?

Jim W in Tampa said:
They make 2 pole 30's,we install lots of them.They could have saved money and not used a switch,just breaker lock.
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Breaker lock? If you are talking about a lockon with a set screw I don't think it will be approved. I think it needs provisions for being locked in the off position by permanent means,like a lock and key.
 
breaker lock

breaker lock

romeo,
most panel mfgs actually make a "pad-locking handle lock" ie: Square- D QOM1PA. Fairly common around here to avoid the expense of a disconnect at the water-heater. Personally I hate them and think the are basically useless, but they are code-compliant.
 
Why at the w/h itself? Isn`t the junction of the water heater considered a termination point/box and isn`t it considered needed to be straped within 12 ins.of that box/termination point.

We use breaker lock outs all the time in lieu of an actual disconnect.If they are used is up to the service tech.They are there to be used or not but as far as the NEC goes as long as they are installed we are code compliant.Working clearanve is for energized equiptment,as long as it is locked out it is no longer energized.Now if someone doesn`t use the lock out well that is the same as not stopping for a stop sign that is in place.It is there as a safety measure but nothing stops an individual from either using it or not using it.Same as a stop sign you can stop or not.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Why 12 inches from the water heater ? From 4 square i agree but its a whip to the heater.I would be looking for other maybe missed items having seen this on a new building.
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I had the same situation with a some HWHs we are installing.
EI required that the whip ON the HWH be strapped in some fashion...his reasoning was that the connector *could* possible come loose and you would lose your EGC (this is a BX job).
I wasn't too concerned about the connector ever "becoming" loose, until he reached over and grabbed the wire and the whole dam thing nearly fell apart! The combination of other trades doing their tasks (taping, painting, duct work, etc) in this small mech. room, coupled with a few slam-jam-and scram type "electricians" left much to be desired on some of these installs (90+ HWHs).

After this incident (which was caught early on), the slackers were left go, the "re-do crew" was in full effect, and all the "new" HWHs wiring was secured....and just for fun, we used MC out of the disconnects :)

I'll post a pic or two if I remember to take some tom'row.
 
mdshunk said:
Well, you're permitted up to 4-1/4 feet or unsupported horizontal run of Greenfield and AC cable, and 6' of MC cable. Can't tell what type you have there exactly, but you've only got less than 2' of horizontal wiring. Fear not.
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Correction: 348.30(A) requires a strap within 12" of any conduit termination.

Exception 2, line item 1 to that rule allows strapping 3 feet away from the conduit termination where flexibility is required.

A single strap on the wall above the disconnect would have sufficed, IMO.

The rule you referred to (348.30(B)) is regarding running through framing members, which this conduit doesn't do. ;)
 
straps

straps

George, are you saying one strap because of exception 2 ?

(if so, and its just another opinion, I don't agree on the flexibilty point in this situation)
 
I had the same situation as the posted pic was, a 4 sq. with flex coming out the top and a str connector going into the HWH junction. The inspector turned it down citing the flex not strapped was subject to physical damage .His thought was that it could be used as a clothes line since it was right next to the dryer.I rolled my eyes and changed it to a str connector coming out the bottom of the 4 sq. and a 90 at the HWH.A 5/16 framing screw and strap on the top of the HWH and he passed it.Same situation,could still be used as a clothes line but since it was secured within 12 ins of each end it passed.
 
augie47 said:
George, are you saying one strap because of exception 2 ?

(if so, and its just another opinion, I don't agree on the flexibilty point in this situation)
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What method would you approve?

attachment.php

Looking again at the picture, If I had installed this, I would have made the whip shorter and more direct, but it still would have been FMC and still not strapped within 12". I would not risk puncturing the tank with a screw, so the strap in the wall would have to do.

Frequently in my area, plumbers install flex copper plumbing lines such as this horrible plumbing job I did at my house. Why can the plumber plumb for flexibility, and I can't or shouldn't? :)
 
georgestolz said:
What method would you approve?

attachment.php

Looking again at the picture, If I had installed this, I would have made the whip shorter and more direct, but it still would have been FMC and still not strapped within 12". I would not risk puncturing the tank with a screw, so the strap in the wall would have to do.

Frequently in my area, plumbers install flex copper plumbing lines such as this horrible plumbing job I did at my house. Why can the plumber plumb for flexibility, and I can't or shouldn't? :)
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George ,you forgot about romex connectors too and that relief valve need some plumbing to get it to a drain pan that needs to have drain.Also dont see the shut off valve on cold side.But other than that its ok.Just ugly.
 
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I disagree that flexibility is required at the water heater. The water heater does not move or vibrate. You could hard pipe it in RMC if you felt like it.
 
Jim, there is a valve to it now, and it's flexed in. The romex hookup was a 10:30PM temp fix, a couple years ago. :)

Flexibility would be devine, IMO, when the heater is replaced every few years. Are they going to buy the exact same model water heater every time? Or are we going to require them to repipe it every time? ;)
 
allenwayne said:
If it was replaced by a plumber why in earth would he have removed the wall strap at all.In the picture there is no sign of a strap ever being installed anyway.Shoddy work at best from the get go.Write your report to say w/h flex needs to be secured within 12 ins of box on both ends !!!!!

I can`t believe I`m helping a home inspector,I hate home inspectors lol lol lol :)
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never mind... you know everything eagle eye!
 
I usually wire with NM. I would have secured the conductor within 12" of the disconnect and zip tied it to the cold water line within 12" of the connector on the water heater.
steve.
 
stickboy1375 said:
never mind... you know everything eagle eye!
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I hardly know everything but over the years I have learned alot.The people on this site will tell you I make many mistakes and misjudgments,but that is why we are here to learn !!!! Maybe if you let your knowledge or lack of overcome your testosterone level you will and should become a better electrician.33 years in the trade and I learn something new eveyday.Try it you`ll like it :)Sorry if I come off cynical.
 
allenwayne said:
I hardly know everything but over the years I have learned alot.The people on this site will tell you I make many mistakes and misjudgments,but that is why we are here to learn !!!! Maybe if you let your knowledge or lack of overcome your testosterone level you will and should become a better electrician.33 years in the trade and I learn something new eveyday.Try it you`ll like it :)Sorry if I come off cynical.
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Hey you just seemed to rip my post apart, i just wanna know why you consider that shoddy work.... in your judgement...and to be honest the thing I learn every day is how much this job really sucks... lets be honest with each other, who likes going to a job and saying WTF was this guy thinking... its amazing when I go back to one of my jobs I never struggle making any changes, YET when I go to any other job i'll I wanna do is shoot myself in the head with a nail gun? That I will never understand...
 
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Stickboy...batting clean-up always sucks...the customer/client/owner expects you polish someone else's turd into a gold bar...that's just the way it is...and some of that polish should rub off in your pocket in the form of gold dust ;)
 
celtic said:
Stickboy...batting clean-up always sucks...the customer/client/owner expects you polish someone else's turd into a gold bar...that's just the way it is...and some of that polish should rub off in your pocket in the form of gold dust ;)
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Not when your the employee, your pay is the same week by week.... always getting the "GOOD" jobs... :) What I love most is that job should only take 1 hour... (yeh right) and the I already looked at the job, yet i'm missing half the material... hmmm go figure...
 
In time, you will lose the peon status....and all the clean-up duty will be a fond memory as you send your peon to bat and gather gold dust in your pockets ;)
 
stickboy1375 said:
Not when your the employee, your pay is the same week by week.... always getting the "GOOD" jobs... :) What I love most is that job should only take 1 hour... (yeh right) and the I already looked at the job, yet i'm missing half the material... hmmm go figure...
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You need to learn fast that your boss likely underestimated the job,time,material.Thats likely why he won the bid, he was the lowest bid.If material was not figured in then he likely did not figure the hours for that extra material either.Also note that they love to tell you low number of hours to motivate you.Get smart early and only do commercial,wish i had.
 
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