Island Outlet Outage - AFCI next?

NEC Inspector said:
We have accepted these before too, on one job. You can see why they are not commonly used...

www.kitchenpowerpopups.com

Lew PUR20GD-B Round Kitchen Pop Up Outlet, GFCI, Brass

Buy the Lew Electric PUR20GD-B pop up receptacle that hides in your kitchen countertop with brass top, 20 Amp outlet, and integrated GFCI protection.
www.kitchenpowerpopups.com www.kitchenpowerpopups.com
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According to the listing information at ETL that product is listed as a "furniture power distribution unit" and is not suitable for installation in countertops.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
According to the listing information at ETL that product is listed as a "furniture power distribution unit" and is not suitable for installation in countertops.
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I think anything with a cord won't pass as permanent wiring in an island or peninsula. The Hubbell ones have a junction box for a cable or raceway to make the connection.
 
Seems like there's a Jeff Foxworthy-esque joke in there somewhere: "If your fully compliant installation on Tuesday becomes a safety-related code violation on Wednesday, and Wednesday's installation was entirely illegal yesterday, then you might need to reconsider your role on a CMP."

This section has been a train wreck for decades, and only gets more dubious as time goes by. I wasn't aware of the "advertising vs listing" of the Lew boxes Don pointed out, that makes it that much more ridiculous. You can't hardly win, aside from breaking the rules after the AHJ leaves the scene and give the customer what they want, which was perfectly legal so recently.
 
I think that is why more and more rules and regulations just get ignored.

Many in my county, just ignore the vast majority of rules and regulations.
 
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Slightly different take than @Seven-Delta-FortyOne , IMHO this is a case of code makers identifying a problem but not able to say 'we see a problem but don't have a good solution '.

The problem of cords getting yanked off of islands is real.

Eliminating previously required island receptacles is a poor answer to this real problem.

IMHO a non enforceable 'informational note' in the code, presenting the problem and the lack of solution, would probably lead to workable, practical solutions for the next code cycle.

I'm partial to the idea of trim or moulding that acts to capture the cord. Prevent the dangling loose cord and the risk of snagging the cord goes way down.
 
winnie said:
Slightly different take than @Seven-Delta-FortyOne , IMHO this is a case of code makers identifying a problem but not able to say 'we see a problem but don't have a good solution '.

The problem of cords getting yanked off of islands is real.

Eliminating previously required island receptacles is a poor answer to this real problem.

IMHO a non enforceable 'informational note' in the code, presenting the problem and the lack of solution, would probably lead to workable, practical solutions for the next code cycle.

I'm partial to the idea of trim or moulding that acts to capture the cord. Prevent the dangling loose cord and the risk of snagging the cord goes way down.
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Yeah, eliminating receptacles leads to extension cord use. Even longer cord to yank on!
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
In some cases the back wall of the island or peninsula is wall space that requires a receptacle.
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If you have a back wall then you probably don't have an island?

Peninsula would have a back wall to the adjoining counter, but that is not part of the peninsula even though there is only an imaginary line separating the two in most cases.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
That loophole is being removed in the 2026 code. No receptacle permitted within 24" of the counter top, measured in any direction other than up.
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Time to start hanging cord reel pendants from the ceiling. I suppose those would be a violation if the cord can reach below the counter level?
 
Fred B said:
Next thing could be, we would have to have a retractable cord drop from the overhead, a pendant cord. No cord hanging over the edge then.
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Were you in my mind? I was writing the same thing when I seen a new post was added, yours.
 
kwired said:
If you have a back wall then you probably don't have an island?

Peninsula would have a back wall to the adjoining counter, but that is not part of the peninsula even though there is only an imaginary line separating the two in most cases.
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I think @don_resqcapt19 was describing a situation where an island is large enough to itself count as wall space. I've seen an 'island' placed right on the boundary of the kitchen and dining room, so that it is a kitchen counter from the kitchen side, effectively a wall from the dining room side, but still open between the two.
 
George Stolz said:
Seems like there's a Jeff Foxworthy-esque joke in there somewhere: "If your fully compliant installation on Tuesday becomes a safety-related code violation on Wednesday, and Wednesday's installation was entirely illegal yesterday, then you might need to reconsider your role on a CMP."

This section has been a train wreck for decades, and only gets more dubious as time goes by. I wasn't aware of the "advertising vs listing" of the Lew boxes Don pointed out, that makes it that much more ridiculous. You can't hardly win, aside from breaking the rules after the AHJ leaves the scene and give the customer what they want, which was perfectly legal so recently.
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There are multiple advertisements that are very misleading, approaching the level of fraud, for these products. It is often difficult for the installer or even the inspector to track down what use the product is actually listed for. In this case the information provided included the ETL listing number and from that I could find what use it was actually listed for.

As far as I know the only products listed for countertop use at this time are the Hubbell products.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
According to the listing information at ETL that product is listed as a "furniture power distribution unit" and is not suitable for installation in countertops.
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I saw it under the furniture listing, but also under this one:

So, the listing to UL-498 is just a general listing for receptacles, and does not include countertop receptacles? Are these listed to be installed in the floor or maybe a windowsill instead of a countertop?

Obviously I have not paid for the standard, but I thought the countertop requirements came from a section of UL-498.

Pop-Up Receptacle, Model Nos. PUR or UCPDR followed by 15 or 20, followed by four to twelve characters
A representative sample of the listed devices have been tested, investigated and found to comply with the requirements of the Standard(s) for Electrical Attachment Plugs and Receptacles (UL-498) and are identified with the ETL Listed Mark.
 
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